Optimalfriskies
JayP's buddy
So Isldar are unable to go above a 15 combat proficiency?
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Proficiency Update V2
- Thread starter MonMarty
- Start date
No. Isldar are just capped at going over athletic, that does not stop them from having further combat proficiencies.
Has the value of the points changed at all?
With the old proficiency page had the small guide for 1 point = trainee, 3 = student, 5= learned, 10= scholar, 20 = expert, 40 =grand master. Are the numbers still comparative to the old system or has it been re-scaled?
With the old proficiency page had the small guide for 1 point = trainee, 3 = student, 5= learned, 10= scholar, 20 = expert, 40 =grand master. Are the numbers still comparative to the old system or has it been re-scaled?
G0atfather
The G0atfather
I mean if 30 is the highest you can get where it was 40 before I would THINK it'd be scaled down in a .75 range meaning
Trainee probs stays the same because it cant go any lower
Student = 2
Learned = 4
Scholar = 8
expert = 15
grand master = 30
This is not official but an assumption so take it with a HUGE grain of salt, but it's how I'm assuming.
Gwyndo
Scottish Egg
Probs just me but I hate the fact that wrestling / grappling is just another unarmed combat stat now, when before it was the direct unarmed counter to the other unarmed styles (IE a boxer just isn't equip to know how to deal with someone shooting double leg takedowns on them)
Question 1 -
Will specific weapons have their favourable matchups outlined again, such as - the Beorl Axe was a hard counter to shields, Flails countered Polearms via entanglement, Wrestling countered other unarmed, etc?
I understand if that's more up to players now, but I can see a lot of arguements avoided if it was just outlined on the wiki itself.
Question 2 -
So I probably missed this but, what can actually be done at the different levels? Like 10 vs 20 vs 30?
Question 1 -
Will specific weapons have their favourable matchups outlined again, such as - the Beorl Axe was a hard counter to shields, Flails countered Polearms via entanglement, Wrestling countered other unarmed, etc?
I understand if that's more up to players now, but I can see a lot of arguements avoided if it was just outlined on the wiki itself.
Question 2 -
So I probably missed this but, what can actually be done at the different levels? Like 10 vs 20 vs 30?
you mean the one that was deleted >.>?
also I super agree on your first point, striking and grappling are very different skill sets, a striker can pretty much enter any striking competition, Kung Fu, Karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai and many others and hold their own regardless of style (generally) or at least not die straight away, however it'd be completely different for a pure grappler to enter a striking styled match and I'm 95% sure it's the same vice versa (pure kyokushin practioner
)
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Reaganism
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I appreciate the update as it is a step in the right direction.
Critique, however, is there. I see some issues with your choice of pulling proficiencies together.
Critique, however, is there. I see some issues with your choice of pulling proficiencies together.
- Statesman now covers all governing niches. If ever there will be another surge in noble activity comparable to the five-month-ish period around this time last year, specialisations will be "outside" the system and there will simply be a flat "governance" skill measuring one politician against the other.
- Body proficiencies seem very general. Especially the rogue one. So many niches and skills packed into one proficiency.
- Marshalry and Admiralty seem to have the same issues as before, similar to the old commerce/judicial/diplomacy skills: hinging heavily on the situation. I see battle command implied in marshalry which can be roleplayed out, though admiralty has no implied captaincy.
- With the current language cap, linguistic knowledge seems rather off and useless. Most characters are trilingual by default. Perhaps remove the age-given languages?
- Underworld knowledge exempt from rogue skill seems weird. A martial/intellectual skill split would feel better. Rogue skill for sleight of hands, sneaking, shadowing, reading lips, etc. Underworld knowledge for forging, connections, infiltration, espionage, etc.
- Alchemy and medicine separate feels weird. There were more characters specialising in either of the now stateman skills than there are who specialise in only alchemy or only medicine.
- Why is Hunting Knowledge separate from nature care? Compared to marshalry or statesmanship it feels awkwardly specific.
- If Axe and Blunt are one category each, why are swords split into three? Two would make sense (short blades & long blades) but three is excessive. Reading the description I feel like you struggled yourself to define the difference between fast blades and thin blades (why are sabres and cutlasses beneath the latter? Why is an arming sword a fast blade then?)
- Siege crossbows and stationary crossbows (scorpions, ballistae) should be under siege weapons and not heavy bows.
- Why separate bows into two categories? They are seldom used in RP or as proficiencies.
- Eastern knowledge feels very Si'hai specific
- Perception seems completely off. It feels like a dump pile where you put leftover points. Why would someone become more perceptive as they grow old and ... practice it? If you don't practice perception you lose on it?
this was always the case for a reason you numpty
alchemy is kept separate because it has nothing to do with medicine
you can make and identify all kinds of alchemical mixtures, but that has absolutely nothing to do with medical procedures
Does this mean Perception Training would stack on top of that for things like sneaking, camoflague, etc like it says on the page?
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Perception is more about spatial awareness around a person than stuff like reading a book and noticing a letter being printed slanted. It's about noticing that someone is behaving like they are hiding something for example in a progression quest which would unlock a part of the quest not normally reachable. It has very little IC applications.
Film_Noir
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Captaincy is obtainable in Sailing Knowledge (which is the hands on stuff) while Admiral Knowledge includes military theory and the tactical knowledge side of things. I think it makes perfect sense e.g. from the point that a merchant sailor wouldn't care about learning warfleet tactics, for example, but could be an excellent captain and navigator in his own right.
Film_Noir
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As for ways to roleplay out the Admiral Knowledge in-game, some of my favourite rp is when a bunch of Admirals and Marshals sit down in a war room and strategise. It's completely possible and we've done it many, many times. There is also the everyday "feel" for which to play a character with too, i.e. his "background" and "job" and "learned knowledge and experiences" which influence the way that he generally approaches things.
Reaganism
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I compared it to statesmanship since commerce has little to do with diplomacy or judiciary practices, but convenience and the new system's direction pulled them together.
I only know of one character example for either only medicine or only alchemy.
the thing is, those are at least able to be used for the same general purpose. alchemy and medicine have no overlap not just in nature but in purpose too
plus alchemy should be kept separate for balance reasons as well as everything else
that aside i've met characters specialised in one or the other plenty of times.
Magivore
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It seems like it's to prevent players from suffering the issue of the old system: being proficient in one criminal skill very well with having 0 application for it. Not only that, but it's so that reviewers don't have to go back and re-approve someone just because they want to change from a halberd to a glaive, which are similar, but would-be different weapons in the old system. The old system had so many options that were so minutely different that it wasn't even funny.
Underworld is more like the old syndicate contacts, "I know a guy who knows a guy who can . . ." Its purpose is small in-character, but in a progression, could give you more branches and 'safer' options that normally wouldn't be open without it. You could also use it to somewhat justify having something IC you wouldn't normally have, I suppose.
By being capable of linguistics, you become a very useful diplomat and translator if any progressions involve ruins or alien languages, which many do. The amount of dead languages that could lead people to great artifacts or tell people of great things are actually astoundingly large, especially concerning Void script.
Hunting knowledge can be used on humans and highly aggressive creatures, but nature care cannot. Nature care is more for gardens, fields, livestock and veterinary progressions whereas hunting is actively pursuing to hunt / kill the target creature, no matter their size and capability.
Axes are almost always lethal, but blunt is not. Blunt can be used for a nightstick or a mace, but axes are meant for battleaxes, bearded axes, the likes. Their damage and effectiveness against armour is very different since blunt is meant to ignore protection (with padding being its only weakness) but axes are meant to go right through it (with no real weaknesses). As for blades, there are so many different types that it would be criminal to lump them all together. A rapier is not equal to a dagger, nor is a shortsword equal to a broadsword. As for cutlasses and sabers, they're primarily seen as the very thin, but lethally sharp weapons meant for lots of parrying and lots of very nasty slices. Even if they aren't that way in reality, just remember we're on a fantasy mineman server where near-anime battles are one of the most popularly enjoyed ones and the last progression we had involved a dragon vanishing mid-flight due to homosexual smoke.
If the bow category were smaller, crossbow, longbow and shortbow would be lumped together, which they certainly should not. Adding the ability to use scorpions and ballistae gives people more incentive to invest in the heavy bow category while not allowing them to ability of explosives in the process. The loading times are also so different that they no longer really deserve to be in the same place.
That's not true. Progressions use archers very often and most fights between large groups use ranged fighters since they're valuable. Guards using crossbows are also common, but the weapon is more likely to be brought out in gang v. city fights rather than in a back-alley ambush against a petty thief. I can think of three different people, including myself, who used crank-crossbows (which have very long loading times) during the Fort Purity events.
Yes and no. Dragons are included with Eastern Knowledge, which just so happens to be what the Sihai study the most. With dragons now becoming more present in the lore, however, people who know more about them are becoming more important, especially since regalia is at war with them. Do note that four different races are very high-dragon right now: the Isldar with frost Wyverns, the Regalians with a feather dragon emperor, the Kathar who have Rikkira the feathered dragon on their side, and the Sihai who (I assume) worship them.
Everyone is equally perceptive, but there are people who spend their lives spotting more and more subtle details. Detectives and scouts are two examples of this. They also serve more value finding hidden loot in progressions rather than IC.
Resolving state issues mostly stem from one's own competency, but statesman seems to be back-up for if you decide to take risks or end up leaving choices to your character with vague instruction. It also works only for progressions, which doesn't really matter IC. Not only that, but any specializations will be seen in the noble's orders and actions IC, and shouldn't need a million different sub-schools when they all mean the same thing: governing a state as a leader.
Marshalry is mostly for commanding armies, but admiralty is for ships (which are a lot bigger and a lot more expensive than soldiers). Both aren't things likely to be seen IC, so their main value is in progressions that need someone to sail unknown / known waters without a map or bringing soldiers effectively to a front. They might be useless when you're talking in a tavern, but then again, learning how to care for pigs won't have any use when you're being mugged either. Christopher Black, one of the most well-known admiral characters, has participated in most, if not all, war progression with significant results that needed ships. He can't command his boats in a bar, but when it's necessary, he's the guy who sends his navy when Regalia does its annual war-time.
If all else fails, aesthetically pleasing abilities that fit a character are sometimes more fun than being super efficient.
Creating a super-virus, gorilla glue, or chemically-spawned fire shouldn't be lumped in with prescribing medicines, surgery, and disease prevention. Having both is useful, but pouring equally into both leaves you less capable in both. It's better to go 80%/20% with one as your 'just in case i need a band-aid or robo-aids' or scrap one category for your character altogether.
Above all else, most of the proficiencies are purposefully left vague so that the barriers are strictly defined, but the limits are not. Mixing some of the above categories together will become so vague that the barriers are no longer defined either, which leaves min-max and argument potential. Proficiencies also matter more for progressions than they do in-character; that is to say, their effects are a passive subtlety for role-play and a direct power for events, where people can do things that aren't possible in role-play (wars, dungeons, foreign interaction, et cetera).
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EndersGameboy
The Last of the Bloodline
So you figured out as well that Rikkira was the Void Dragon? Smooth.
EndersGameboy
The Last of the Bloodline
I still find it odd that the Altalar have never had a single Arcane proficiency boost ever, but I guess it does make sense that they have the history boost considering that they are obsessed with themselves and their history, as well as the Staves boost since they have the perfect body-build for it and invented the Atraves Stave.
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Because monolinguals (most of the community) don't understand how difficult is to be fully bi-lingual, or even tri-lingual, at the age of 20, even with modern education. Dropping Common to a non-free language requires it to be picked at the start, thus forcing a more realistic view on linguistics, or forces a character to be partially lingual and have to deal with the obstacle of language barrier, wich is a situation that sparks creativity in and of itself.
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Well, then I hope enough people start playing non-common monolingual characters. As it is now it just seems like something that'd be pretty limited and frustrating, roleplay wise.
Literacy knowledge
Conflee
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u wot m8?
Dancing... Literary.... And not.... Musical....?
I am confusion.
"Literary Arts Proficiency covers the conceptualization and execution of literature based skills. This includes but is not limited to writing, poetry, recitation of said poetry, stage play writing, stage play performance, dancing, public speaking, and even writing philosophical treatises. " it's on the wiki, man. Makes sense when you think about it and see what else is with it.
Conflee
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Not really. Stage performance and the other things are actual literary things. Dancing has nothing to do with reading or writing at all it should be Musical reeeee
Eternal_Wrath
Skagger Dad
Personally I think that the Pole and Stave combat skills should be combined into one skill. The written difference of what part is used is rather odd to me as many polearms feature spikes on the butt end of their hafts and many polearms, such as the poleaxe, use quarterstaff techniques in combat. To me, it makes little sense to separate them on something so situational. For example, if you were to parry an attack with the head of your polearm, but have an opening to slam the butt of the haft into an opponents face o possibly stun them, does that not violate the difference between staves and polearms on the current skill list?
JokerLupus
<insert something here>
Pole Combat Skill covers the usage of so called Pole Weapons, which are for example spears, halberds or hook staves.
Stave Combat Skill is very similar to the Pole Combat Skill but covers the usage of weapons of which both ends are used to strike or deflect, as opposed to having only the head of the weapon be used. Stave Combat Skill dictates the use of the Atraves Stave, or other improvised stave weapons like walking canes, sticks, and staves. Points invested in this Proficiency allow for greater dexterity in wielding Stave weapons and for more powerful blows with seemingly frail wooden weapons.
The exampled weapons in each skill are used differently and require different skill or fighting style. You won't use the butt of a spear to attack someone, you'll use the tip to stab. They are similar as it says, but different enough to not be grouped together. Comparing an atraves to a halberd is vastly different in terms of use.
Eternal_Wrath
Skagger Dad
They don't really no, usafe if one polearm can generally easily translate to another. As for the spear, if given a chance to do so in combat, I'd imagine such would be done. The head of the spear is the primary striking place, but to limit it to the only place just isn't good. Take a longsword for example, the main attack face is the blade, yet there are plenty of techniques that don't use the blade if the sword. And as for the previous forming of the atrave, being a thrusting weapon, and irl halberd usage, they both are primarily hafted thrusting weapons.
JokerLupus
<insert something here>
Atraves are actually more for slashing. Thrusting is possible but it's not the main means of attack. The wiki said as a explanation before the change of system that thrusting is not as effective or fast compared to slashing.
Eternal_Wrath
Skagger Dad
Fair enough then, I missed this. Thank you for updating me on this.
