-poof- -reeeeeeeaaaaalllly needs editing-
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Digital Art Discussion!
- Thread starter celticwitch
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I'm going to give a fairly brutally honest response. Most of what this post will detail is not good news, but I think it needs to be said, not just to you individually, but also more artists out there, as I also tell myself most of this every day. If you don't want to read trough a pile of negativity to find the positive message in between the lines, don't read this.
When you have to start this thread with 'We all have a style that suits us' you're basically telling the reader "I'm aware that my art is sub-par, but if you are going to claim it's not good, I'll just tell you that it's my style", which essentially affirms that you are aware that there are mountains of improvement to be done. From experience as a CMD student, as well as someone who makes his living from freelance artwork, I don't believe people can develop a style until around the age of 25, consistent trends can be ovserved troughout several years, but an actual style does not develop to the point where you could blindly say which artist made it if all art was piled up and put next to each other. I'm 23 now and I still don't have a style, my trends develop rapidly every month and only slowly is it starting to settle down now.
Before the nastiest part of this message comes trough, let me say that art can never truly fail beyond your own perception. If you believe that what you drew is a good representation of what you had in your mind, then you are king in own land already. If however you seek the approval of others, you will start doing artwork to please others. A good example is the fact that I love drawing my roleplay characters in tasteful nude positions for private work. I have an image in my head, a pose, or an emotion, and I draw artwork based on it usually in a nudist position, simply because it keeps challenging me to practice anatomy. If I don't have clothes to hide anything behind, then I am forced to improve every aspect of the body, down to the toes. When I however draw comissions for others, I never draw nudity unless reqeuested. Sometimes I draw something I intensely hate, but I do it because someone paid me to, or because they wanted me to. When you publicize art, you subject it to the same view of others, the eye of the beholder will judge your work, and you have to deal with and adapt to their visions.
My un-sugarcoated opinion of your artwork, is that it's scribbled junk. The helplines aren't cleaned up, the perspective is wrong, the anatomy is off, and in some cases it seems like you didn't even try to connect the lines to at least appear cohensive. It's not stick figures bad, but I think you yourself aren't even happy with most of the art work here, simply because I remember myself being exactly the same. Around that age, I had wonderful things in my head (I still do!) but I was unable to actually pin them down on paper due to my lack of technique, workflow or otherwise visualization of what I wanted to make. I'm fairly certain encouragements and good messages from your friends caused you to post this thread in search of further approval of the artwork, but I think those friends are unfair in their statements. It's hard to tell a friend their artwork sucks, after all, many artists grind on their artwork for hours, and it takes one person to take apart any sort of pride you had for your creation in a matter of minutes. Friends are naturally biased, they want to say nice things to you because they like you, and they don't want you to dislike them for saying what might offend you. I am a very avid supporter of saying the absolute brutal truth. Lies and conceiled niceties don't help people and I will explain why.
I posted a thread a little while ago about the stream, where both Cruallassar and Mecharic proceeded to nitpick at the chosen anatomy of the dragon. At first when I read their messages I became a little bit sad, after all, this was the first dragon I had ever drawn based on the tutorial works of Jesse Smith (great artist by the way, look her up on DA under Tojo the Thief). But when I really thought about it, they were right in their observations, what they said made sense, and even though their attempts at dragon drawing would likely result in some wobbly rat with wings (I don't actually know the artistic capabilities of Mecharic, so that is just a gamble), it doesn't devaluate or lower the truth in what they said. The foundation there is that just because someone doesn't have an ability you do, doesn't mean they cannot give constructive critisizm. I took what necessary things I found in the message of the above said individuals, and geared it towards motivation to improve my work, as well as improve the realism of my dragon artwork.
I ask my friends to always be honest and tell me whatever they think looks wrong about an artwork. A person can never say "It looks perfect". Art never looks perfect, and even if it does in the moment, it won't two weeks later. Any person always has at least one critique, and their critique's are what helps an artist improve as well as motivate them to actually improve themselves. So long story short. Try to focus less on what your friends say, and more on what people say is lacking in your art work. Try to phaze out the negative load of what they say, and focus solely on what you can improve if you break down their critics.
The reason why I wrote this long story, is because by the looks of it, you have potential but you seem to block off any sort of incentive or ambition to improve with excuses (at least that is the impression I am getting from the words used in your post). You're too youg to have a style, none of any pair of these drawing sets look alike. I will however say that your digital art looks better than your traditional art. I am personally a great proponent of digital art, and I think you should fully focus on that. If I remember your forum status correctly, you recently acquired a drawing tablet. Which one did you get?
If you're interested (or anyone else for that matter!) I often stream my artwork on a private twitch account. I'm even prepared to sit down with people on Teamspeak at certain days and hours to simply allow them to look how I draw, what my work flow is etc. I am not saying that my way of drawing or what I draw is the best and only way, I am however saying that looking and seeing the process and mechanics behind an artists' work, can often inspire or give you new ideas on how to do your work. Goldenrook showed me his technique for hairwork. He basically worked in marker shaded hair on a clipped layer, which causes really cool realistic hair locks to form. I didn't like his method of manual colour picking in detailing however, so I adapted his technique to my own taste, by using multiply layers and luminosity layers to play around with the contrast. Even if you aren't interested in advanced techniques, I could always give you some general pointers.
Rant out
EDIT: On a very last end note, I attached a drawing I made when I was about your age. You're not that far off I'd say.
Before the nastiest part of this message comes trough, let me say that art can never truly fail beyond your own perception. If you believe that what you drew is a good representation of what you had in your mind, then you are king in own land already. If however you seek the approval of others, you will start doing artwork to please others. A good example is the fact that I love drawing my roleplay characters in tasteful nude positions for private work. I have an image in my head, a pose, or an emotion, and I draw artwork based on it usually in a nudist position, simply because it keeps challenging me to practice anatomy. If I don't have clothes to hide anything behind, then I am forced to improve every aspect of the body, down to the toes. When I however draw comissions for others, I never draw nudity unless reqeuested. Sometimes I draw something I intensely hate, but I do it because someone paid me to, or because they wanted me to. When you publicize art, you subject it to the same view of others, the eye of the beholder will judge your work, and you have to deal with and adapt to their visions.
My un-sugarcoated opinion of your artwork, is that it's scribbled junk. The helplines aren't cleaned up, the perspective is wrong, the anatomy is off, and in some cases it seems like you didn't even try to connect the lines to at least appear cohensive. It's not stick figures bad, but I think you yourself aren't even happy with most of the art work here, simply because I remember myself being exactly the same. Around that age, I had wonderful things in my head (I still do!) but I was unable to actually pin them down on paper due to my lack of technique, workflow or otherwise visualization of what I wanted to make. I'm fairly certain encouragements and good messages from your friends caused you to post this thread in search of further approval of the artwork, but I think those friends are unfair in their statements. It's hard to tell a friend their artwork sucks, after all, many artists grind on their artwork for hours, and it takes one person to take apart any sort of pride you had for your creation in a matter of minutes. Friends are naturally biased, they want to say nice things to you because they like you, and they don't want you to dislike them for saying what might offend you. I am a very avid supporter of saying the absolute brutal truth. Lies and conceiled niceties don't help people and I will explain why.
I posted a thread a little while ago about the stream, where both Cruallassar and Mecharic proceeded to nitpick at the chosen anatomy of the dragon. At first when I read their messages I became a little bit sad, after all, this was the first dragon I had ever drawn based on the tutorial works of Jesse Smith (great artist by the way, look her up on DA under Tojo the Thief). But when I really thought about it, they were right in their observations, what they said made sense, and even though their attempts at dragon drawing would likely result in some wobbly rat with wings (I don't actually know the artistic capabilities of Mecharic, so that is just a gamble), it doesn't devaluate or lower the truth in what they said. The foundation there is that just because someone doesn't have an ability you do, doesn't mean they cannot give constructive critisizm. I took what necessary things I found in the message of the above said individuals, and geared it towards motivation to improve my work, as well as improve the realism of my dragon artwork.
I ask my friends to always be honest and tell me whatever they think looks wrong about an artwork. A person can never say "It looks perfect". Art never looks perfect, and even if it does in the moment, it won't two weeks later. Any person always has at least one critique, and their critique's are what helps an artist improve as well as motivate them to actually improve themselves. So long story short. Try to focus less on what your friends say, and more on what people say is lacking in your art work. Try to phaze out the negative load of what they say, and focus solely on what you can improve if you break down their critics.
The reason why I wrote this long story, is because by the looks of it, you have potential but you seem to block off any sort of incentive or ambition to improve with excuses (at least that is the impression I am getting from the words used in your post). You're too youg to have a style, none of any pair of these drawing sets look alike. I will however say that your digital art looks better than your traditional art. I am personally a great proponent of digital art, and I think you should fully focus on that. If I remember your forum status correctly, you recently acquired a drawing tablet. Which one did you get?
If you're interested (or anyone else for that matter!) I often stream my artwork on a private twitch account. I'm even prepared to sit down with people on Teamspeak at certain days and hours to simply allow them to look how I draw, what my work flow is etc. I am not saying that my way of drawing or what I draw is the best and only way, I am however saying that looking and seeing the process and mechanics behind an artists' work, can often inspire or give you new ideas on how to do your work. Goldenrook showed me his technique for hairwork. He basically worked in marker shaded hair on a clipped layer, which causes really cool realistic hair locks to form. I didn't like his method of manual colour picking in detailing however, so I adapted his technique to my own taste, by using multiply layers and luminosity layers to play around with the contrast. Even if you aren't interested in advanced techniques, I could always give you some general pointers.
Rant out
EDIT: On a very last end note, I attached a drawing I made when I was about your age. You're not that far off I'd say.
Thank you..MonMarty said:
Yes you are sorta-ish right on the point of potential, I do it because I want to. Yes.. Perhaps it does look frankly horrible and I am neither happy nor am I unhappy with anything I produce..
I dislike my traditional art more than anything and I only use it for simple basing of some later work I still dislike. I only drew against paper so I could scan it in and trace it over, deleting texture and what not for a cleaner look.
On the subject of digital tablets/work, I am really still only just trying with my work.. I could do better and that is what I am able to achieve in digital. Eh.. You read my stats? Yikes. (Along with everyone else's.) Well, yes, I did get/receiving a tablet but it is plain and really cheap (only because I am still childishly stuck at rock bottom for any art). I will find the brand after and mention it to you.
I could blabber on and disagree entirely, but what you say is the truth and I accept that (merely realised it a while back). I am faulty in my traditional work, I should focus on digital, I am happy nor am I disappointed in my work.. Perhaps I am the good side of nothing for now with a 'faulty style'.
I do appreciate you replying, I will also take a look at a livestream or two when I have time or are live streaming here.
Thank you, please delete this thread after you have read this. MonMarty
Cruallassar
The shadow of power
I'm glad you found our nitpicks useful, Mon. Although my dragons look pretty dragon-like...as pencil line-art.
-wishes he hadn't made Mon sad...-
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Instead of deleting the thread, let's commute it to a digital art discussion thread.
I started my tabletting with a Trust design tablet. I probably paid 70 USD for this at the time. Not worth more than 10 now.
It was a piece of shit. Had no sensitivity pressure, was wonky and inaccurate but it got the job done. I gave it to an acquaintance of mine which I barely knew in College. The tablet was so shit I didn't even bother to ask it back from him since I already got the bamboo at that time.
I then bought a larger macro screen, hoping it would improve. I paid 200 USD for this.
BOY WAS I WRONG. This tablet was so shit, I threw the pen out of the window once and never used it again.
Then I expanded into the holy grail of tablets manufacturers. I bought a Wacom Pen and Touch. I do not advise anyone to buy a touch tablet. Your palm will start reacting to the friction, causing the tablet to pick up gestures that you aren't even making.
Wacom is unbeatable period. Their brand is the #1 uncontested industry standard.
I lost the pen to this tablet after a year, and bought the upgraded bamboo.
This baby was with me for a good 5 years. I killed several pen tips which I refilled, scratched the surface, bent the chord, but I drew so much with this. It's a great pre-professional step. I believe it goes for about 80 USD now.
And then, I progressed to the absolute holy grail of USB tablets, the 13HD Cintiq by Wacom.
Priced at 1000 USD, it has yet to actually pay back it's investment, but oh my god this thing is beyond perfect. My artwork has increased so much since I bought this one, simply because I don't have to deal with the mental disconnect of not being able to see what I am drawing on paper anymore.
I heartily recommend everyone to get a Wacom anything to do artwork on computers, Cintiq's are ofcourse the best, but the 1000-2400 USD pricerange might be a bit much for some. Wacom Splash is a great start, I believe it is the current standard, and runs around 80-100 USD. Faewyn and BloodBaron, two other great artists, recommend the Wacom Intuos. I haven't used that one though, but I have heard other professional artists say it's a great tablet to "start out".
EDIT: Scrap that, the Splash has been taken out of production. The Intuos is the only tablet Wacom sells beyond the screen solutions.
I started my tabletting with a Trust design tablet. I probably paid 70 USD for this at the time. Not worth more than 10 now.
It was a piece of shit. Had no sensitivity pressure, was wonky and inaccurate but it got the job done. I gave it to an acquaintance of mine which I barely knew in College. The tablet was so shit I didn't even bother to ask it back from him since I already got the bamboo at that time.
I then bought a larger macro screen, hoping it would improve. I paid 200 USD for this.
BOY WAS I WRONG. This tablet was so shit, I threw the pen out of the window once and never used it again.
Then I expanded into the holy grail of tablets manufacturers. I bought a Wacom Pen and Touch. I do not advise anyone to buy a touch tablet. Your palm will start reacting to the friction, causing the tablet to pick up gestures that you aren't even making.
Wacom is unbeatable period. Their brand is the #1 uncontested industry standard.
I lost the pen to this tablet after a year, and bought the upgraded bamboo.
This baby was with me for a good 5 years. I killed several pen tips which I refilled, scratched the surface, bent the chord, but I drew so much with this. It's a great pre-professional step. I believe it goes for about 80 USD now.
And then, I progressed to the absolute holy grail of USB tablets, the 13HD Cintiq by Wacom.
Priced at 1000 USD, it has yet to actually pay back it's investment, but oh my god this thing is beyond perfect. My artwork has increased so much since I bought this one, simply because I don't have to deal with the mental disconnect of not being able to see what I am drawing on paper anymore.
I heartily recommend everyone to get a Wacom anything to do artwork on computers, Cintiq's are ofcourse the best, but the 1000-2400 USD pricerange might be a bit much for some. Wacom Splash is a great start, I believe it is the current standard, and runs around 80-100 USD. Faewyn and BloodBaron, two other great artists, recommend the Wacom Intuos. I haven't used that one though, but I have heard other professional artists say it's a great tablet to "start out".
EDIT: Scrap that, the Splash has been taken out of production. The Intuos is the only tablet Wacom sells beyond the screen solutions.
Cruallassar
The shadow of power
I started and am still using a smaller version of the bamboo tablet, I have not been using it that much unfortunately. The reason is that my computer does not have any good drawing programs, due to the fact that there are no free ones, so I am using photoshop on my school computers. However they do not have the drivers for my tablet. I am eagerly awaiting the time when I have the funds or funding to buy one of those heavenly blessings of modern technology that Monmarty shows last, plus photoshop, but until then, I am so far most limited by my pencil/scanner, mouse, and time. That said, I am so far no good at people's faces, so when I can, that will be the first tutorial I take from Mon...
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Oh yeah, anyone trying to do digital artwork on a Mac is basically screwed. Despite the "Digital media work" advertisements Mac gets to hail it's stability and superiority over computers, it can't even run industry standard programs for the majority of the "media" fields.
Mhm? I have to scan the internet more after this year if what not doesn't work out well.
As I said, still a fairly nooby person to all digital terms so I got one tablet at $50 from EBay.. Might've been a bad thing.
I wanted something large as small boards make me uncomfortable, this I have no idea what brand it is but if it works well enough I will use it temporarily.. I have yet to find a good starting point for Digital program, something simple for a novice drawer to start at for the moment.
If I make no sense, it is because I am writing on my phone.
As I said, still a fairly nooby person to all digital terms so I got one tablet at $50 from EBay.. Might've been a bad thing.
I wanted something large as small boards make me uncomfortable, this I have no idea what brand it is but if it works well enough I will use it temporarily.. I have yet to find a good starting point for Digital program, something simple for a novice drawer to start at for the moment.
If I make no sense, it is because I am writing on my phone.
Cruallassar
The shadow of power
I am now using PC. But Mac does run good programs...such as photoshop, and whatever my sister is using. That said, I don't know what "industry standard" is specifically, so if photoshop isn't...I would like to see what industry standard is.
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Paint tool SAI is the artistic community's standard program, along with Photoshop. Photoshop is more professional, but Paint tool SAI is more user friendly, along with the stabilizer tool. If you have trouble making straight lines while wobbling, paint tool SAI is your best friend.
Good is not best unfortunately. Photoshop comes close, but the majority of my subscribed artists who have a large following and financial success use Paint tool SAI despite it's shortcomings.
Good is not best unfortunately. Photoshop comes close, but the majority of my subscribed artists who have a large following and financial success use Paint tool SAI despite it's shortcomings.
Mecharic
I'm tempermental, deal with it.
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Azas
lofi sihai
Mecharic
I'm tempermental, deal with it.
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-facedesk- I didn't even see the spoiler XD
On the topic of styles, following someone's advice, I found that it helps to start realistic first before going onto other styles, including anime or cartoon style. This is not only to learn anatomy but it's easier to go from realistic to other styles.
(Ironically, when I try to draw anime-style it turns out crap but when I draw realistically it turns out looking like anime)
(Ironically, when I try to draw anime-style it turns out crap but when I draw realistically it turns out looking like anime)
Miss_Confined
❤ Confy ❤ - Mrs. Massivecraft
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Personally Celty. As I see you grow into the wonderful person that I am priveledged to have around me- I am going to say this.
We're still children.
I am pretty sure I'm about- if not already your age, and my 'style' changes like crazy. (Though I always stick with the anime/manga style 'cause I find it adorable.) My advice to you? Keep working with your pencil and paper and experiment with your tablet. (Which I have neglected in doing cause I can't draw a straight line with that thing...) In all honesty, Your artwork is beautiful, adorable, and overall has the sweet nature that I see in you. Perhaps cleaning the paper up a bit would be helpful, but feel free to explore your techniques, and find new ones! That's what I do.
Confy's Art Examples!~
Me a few months ago~
Me today:
We're still children.
I am pretty sure I'm about- if not already your age, and my 'style' changes like crazy. (Though I always stick with the anime/manga style 'cause I find it adorable.) My advice to you? Keep working with your pencil and paper and experiment with your tablet. (Which I have neglected in doing cause I can't draw a straight line with that thing...) In all honesty, Your artwork is beautiful, adorable, and overall has the sweet nature that I see in you. Perhaps cleaning the paper up a bit would be helpful, but feel free to explore your techniques, and find new ones! That's what I do.
Confy's Art Examples!~
Me a few months ago~Me today:
Rinus
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I use a Wacom Bamboo CTL-470
It's not the best, but it's a reasonable size, and it works pretty well~
Hopefully, after saving up lots of money from buying and selling calves on the farm, I'll upgrade to a Cintiq, because being able to see what I'm doing on the surface I'm drawing is brilliant~
I also use FireAlpaca, and I'll try Paint Tool SAI~
It's not the best, but it's a reasonable size, and it works pretty well~
Hopefully, after saving up lots of money from buying and selling calves on the farm, I'll upgrade to a Cintiq, because being able to see what I'm doing on the surface I'm drawing is brilliant~
I also use FireAlpaca, and I'll try Paint Tool SAI~
LadyTeddington
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I was tagged...? Oooh. Art things! Ahm well. I draw for others a lot... Eheh. I don't really draw for myself unless it's a character I have or something... And I suck at anatomy and I'd like to start practicing but I'm worried my friends will just go through my sketchbook and see that stuff and just be butts about it. I have a bamboo pen and touch, I think... Which I've been using for a good two years and this will be my third year using it. I'm only able to use Paint Tool Sai at the moment because I screwed up my photoshop and barely know how to use that. Well... That's about.. It? I suppose.
^ This, really. I used to beat myself up whenever I see all these great digital artworks compared to my own crap. But I realize that most of the artists I followed were probably somewhere in their 20s. You've got months and months and years and years ahead to practice and improve and do stuff.
It's never too late to start either. I had an instructor who didn't start painting until his late twenties. He spent art classes in a room full of kids who could "paint the **** out of [him]".
Cruallassar
The shadow of power
I have now for the next...few hours. I would love to watch!
Is Paint tool SAI free, by any chance? -hopes-
And the stabilizer sounds quite useful...in certain situations.
Also, since people seem to be posting their art...
That is purely mine, I have issues with proportions...
And Monmarty made this one thatwon'tgoonthepageforsomereasonbutisinthe attached files, but then I went back and edited it to meet my needs. I am trying to get to the point where I won't need someone else to make a base... (because obvious) See if anyone can see the edits?
Oh, and another thing about tablets, it's different from using a pencil in the way you hold, move, and press. This goes for other ways of drawing/painting as well, it's best if you learn to use your whole arm instead of just the wrists. I've strained my wrist in the early days trying to use tablets like I do pencil and paper aha… But I'm still not used to using tablets so it's the way I have to draw to get finer details. Ahaha ow...
Molimo
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Do sketch on one layer, linework on the next layer, then copy the linelayer onto a duplicate layer underneath the line layer and use that layer to colour in. That way the lines on the second layer always remain preserved.
Macroreptilia
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Just 'cause... I've been practicing my art skills. I believe celticwitch has seen alot of it, and here's a dragon I drew:
I did it with pen tool, and some blur for the shading. :/
I did it with pen tool, and some blur for the shading. :/
Cruallassar
The shadow of power
Skin and bones...I feel sorry for that dragon...someone give that dragon a sheep...
Macroreptilia
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Most of mine are, I really need to work on it xD
Macroreptilia
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Macroreptilia
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Alright, but you previously suggested the bamboo for beginners, would this do for a beginner?
Macroreptilia
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Really? On the website they show the Bamboo Pad.
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OOooooooo, I have that Bamboo!
Rinus
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*bamboo five!*
MonMarty celticwitch MiningMac5 the following is the tablet that actually just came in the mail a few hours ago. I need a few tips. I am an aspiring artist, though I study anatomy, I cannot draw anatomy. This is the bamboo tablet I ordered, it is connected to a wire that then connects to my computer. The pen is comfortable, though it is different with the way I hold it.
I wish to draw my role play characters, though I don't know where to start. I am equipped with a check I recently got from work, and I'm ready to purchase any software to help me with my art, also I believe shading is, if not one of, the most important techniques when drawing. What do you guys think about what I have to say?
LadyTeddington
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I'll just put a lil bit of input here... Well. I really like using Paint Tool Sai but I think you should use photoshop or something. It's hard to get used to photoshop and PTS is a bit easier to use and has some neat features but people tell me that PhotoShop is more "professional" or whatever so yeah... ;u; good luck!
Macroreptilia
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y u so expensive art software
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Paint tool SAI still wins for me due to the stabilizer feature, but I have been trying to move towards photoshop as of late. Feature wise though, any aspiring artist can work with Paint tool SAI. Due to professional limitations however, in the actual concept industry Photoshop becomes more central.
Macroreptilia
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Who wants to talk about coloring methods?
I'm really stuck on it and don't know which way to go
I'm really stuck on it and don't know which way to go
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