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Inventory Split Incoming
MassiveCraft will be implementing an inventory split across game modes to improve fairness, balance, and player experience. Each game mode (Roleplay and Survival) will have its own dedicated inventory going forward. To help players prepare, we’ve opened a special storage system to safeguard important items during the transition. For full details, read the announcement here: Game Mode Inventory Split blog post.
Your current inventories, backpacks, and ender chest are in the shared Medieval inventory. When the new Roleplay inventory is created and assigned to the roleplay world(s) you will lose access to your currently stored items.
Important Dates
- April 1: Trunk storage opens.
- May 25: Final day to submit items for storage.
- June 1: Inventories are officially split.
Please make sure to submit any items you wish to preserve in the trunk storage or one of the roleplay worlds before the deadline. After the split, inventories will no longer carry over between game modes.
This suggestion has been archived / closed and can no longer be voted on.
I like everything on here so much. Just one thing i want to comment on.
I agree with this... to a degree. We need more items that people want to donate for. God armor/weapons are wanted.
krios41
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i like your tiered restore thingy
but personaly i wouldn't stop at 70%
i'd stop at 50%
but i have no clue how much of a difference it could make XD
but personaly i wouldn't stop at 70%
i'd stop at 50%
but i have no clue how much of a difference it could make XD
Madus
Robot
Thanks for tagging me. Rarely anyone make well formulated posts about this topic.
I agree with most of the analysis. But I believe there is many more things we could do to better the situation, than what you just proposed.
I would also like to point out that The Team is basically the government, but with much greater tools at our disposal. We can change crafting recipes, ore spawning and much much more. Unlike the real world, there is basically no debt and all money are created by the server/government. So money creation is a lot different than IRL (if you did not understand the last two sentences it is fine).
Now I'd like to see ideas for how we can increase demand and decrease supply. If we can do anything at all it is going to take time, due to the sheer amount of resources people already have. So adjusting this will be very difficult.
Regarding comparisons to the real life market. Some argue that the economy has sectors, and mining is in the first and is thus mostly a thing of the past, services such as skin making is in the third sector and is going really well. This sector theory is true to some degree, what it lacks is the notion of innovation. Innovation has made everyone IRL richer, and is usually created by the market. On MassiveCraft most innovation is created by the government. Mining became easier in 2014 because of traits, so the innovation was made by the government. This is one of the key differences MassiveCraft has, anything dealbreaking that changes the economy is made by the server and not by the market.
I agree with most of the analysis. But I believe there is many more things we could do to better the situation, than what you just proposed.
I would also like to point out that The Team is basically the government, but with much greater tools at our disposal. We can change crafting recipes, ore spawning and much much more. Unlike the real world, there is basically no debt and all money are created by the server/government. So money creation is a lot different than IRL (if you did not understand the last two sentences it is fine).
Now I'd like to see ideas for how we can increase demand and decrease supply. If we can do anything at all it is going to take time, due to the sheer amount of resources people already have. So adjusting this will be very difficult.
Regarding comparisons to the real life market. Some argue that the economy has sectors, and mining is in the first and is thus mostly a thing of the past, services such as skin making is in the third sector and is going really well. This sector theory is true to some degree, what it lacks is the notion of innovation. Innovation has made everyone IRL richer, and is usually created by the market. On MassiveCraft most innovation is created by the government. Mining became easier in 2014 because of traits, so the innovation was made by the government. This is one of the key differences MassiveCraft has, anything dealbreaking that changes the economy is made by the server and not by the market.
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ulumulu1510
Magical Assistant
From what I understand, we restore the ores to 100% of it's old state. We do so in an already configurable manner, so we can adjust which blocks spawn at which rate etc.
If I remember correctly (and if it is still this way) there is arcane forging in MCMMO. At a certain level in repairing your enchantment level reduction hits zero and you can repair without risk. Understandably, this might have gotten forgotten because of the very easy /fix solution we had for a long time.
Generally, MCMMO was/is all about specialization. If you are high level in a skill, you are able to smelt faster/harvest more crops/ get double drops from ores. Truth is what you already mentioned; Many players are already at such a level that they receive those bonuses for many different skills.
I'd have time this sunday, but we might aswell keep the discussion going in this thread so everyone else can also share their opinion on this topic.
I am definitively following you and what you want to say. I personally am of the believe that we have to find this balance between items that players want to buy for all people and not flooding the economy with items that could be bought somewhere in a shop.
The current appeal to the armor and weapons is that they can actually be used. We all will wear them, either in PVE or PVP. There is an actual use for those items, they are actually helpful in your "daily minecraft live" so to say. Cake isn't. While Cake for all is great and fun, it doesn't have the same appeal as armor or weapons. Lore items for instance are valuable because they are rare...if everyone has them, it's not as special anymore.
So please tell us: What items could be sold, that are valuable to the players, that they actually want to use and share with all of the server? It's hard to maintain that balance, but maybe you have a suggestion instead
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ulumulu1510
Magical Assistant
Since neither I nor you have data to back us up, I am going to assume that people are indeed using MCMMO anvils or will start using them again. The current situation is really appealing to the MCMMO way of repair. It will probably get an increase in interest by the community, even though we possibly could make MCMMO repairing even more usable/profitable/balanced.
As you pointed out, we might see an increase of people using it and I personally would like to wait for that to happen. IF we get more data, we also get more information of how people respond to loosing their enchantment levels.
My point of view is that having people loose enchants on items is probably still more appealing than using regals. Because as it was pointed out, using a regal for every % is usually not worth it.
Mid-Edit, I just had to do some research in the code of mcmmo and, firsty, found some fun stuff and secondly, now agree with you in some points. Downgrading should probably stay at the percentages they are, but keeping the enchants should be more than 60%, but not 100% either. There should still be risk involved, even if you are at the highest level of repair. As in real life, you are always able to make mistakes.
It is mostly hard because we are pressed into making decisions to keep what we have and go on with what we love. Mojang has stated very clearly in the eula that IF you give something to players it HAS to be for everyone. And yes, I agree with you on the "you earned it" playstyle. I love old school rpgs where you have to fight your way through a really tough dungeon to get that great piece of loot.
But the problem isn't solved here. Normal diamond equipment, well .... I am not sure. Could we offer items that are indeed practical and usable in every day lives but not to be sold/made money from? I just thought about Elytras, but even those can be sold for a high price...
You need to find the perfect item… The one that is both useful so people donate for it (the top priority) but also doesn't ruin the game (secondary priority)
From what I understand, and this is what I know to be true roughly 3-4 months ago, MCMMO repair was not a feasible option when it came to repairing god armor. It wasn't that PVPERS couldn't afford to lose their enchants in the literal sense of money, because they could. They couldn't afford the annoyance of possibly losing their enchants, and now having a piece of armor with Protection III and something like Unbreaking I. The risk/reward wasn't worth it.
I strongly believe that if you increase the percent chance of retaining enchantments to say 90%-95% at highest level, people will use MCMMO repair much more than they already do, which if I had to guess, is next to none. The risk/reward simply isn't worth it at the moment. For all intents and purpose, it is a broken and unused feature that we could put back into use very easily.
I would say it's okay to give items that can be sold eventually, it's just if you give everyone an item as common as a piece of god armor, you increase the supply drastically every time someone donates. These donations features directly counteract our attempts at reducing the supply of these items.
twinCatalysts
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Just a comment, I made a post here about changing the MCMMO Arcane forging to 100% a month ago, and there is quite a bit of discussion on the matter if you'd care to read through it.
https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/the-removal-of-fix-and-my-alternative-solution.38170/
https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/the-removal-of-fix-and-my-alternative-solution.38170/
McMMO levels are the only thing bringing some people back to the server. Plus lots of people, including myself, have spent HOURS darkrooming for those levels. We havent outgrown it in my opinion.
Jackmo_Jones
He's the Ripper, Jack the Ripper.
The economy doesn't really need to be fixed. What do people really need regals for anyway? I personally only spend my regals on my faction to pay its taxes which if I didn't own so much land with no members I could easily pay for it just by voting.
Regals are just kind of a luxury that cut time off the acquirement of things that literally anyone can make themselves. I don't see why we would make such a drastic move like removing mcmmo so people can have more regals. Sure there are other luxury items the server offers like rentable properties but stuff like that is completely controlled by staff so if they see nobody can afford them all they have to do is lower the price. Darkrooming and voting will always be a very viable option for making money so the economy will never completely die it will just change and that's fine.
All I'm saying is there is no reason to remove features a lot of us like to fix something that isn't really necessary to the server at all.
Regals are just kind of a luxury that cut time off the acquirement of things that literally anyone can make themselves. I don't see why we would make such a drastic move like removing mcmmo so people can have more regals. Sure there are other luxury items the server offers like rentable properties but stuff like that is completely controlled by staff so if they see nobody can afford them all they have to do is lower the price. Darkrooming and voting will always be a very viable option for making money so the economy will never completely die it will just change and that's fine.
All I'm saying is there is no reason to remove features a lot of us like to fix something that isn't really necessary to the server at all.
Sarge_Peppers
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You are preaching the sunk cost fallacy the hours of grinding have already been sunk and cannot be recovered thus you cannot use them to evaluate the opportunity cost of removing mcmmo and replacing it.
Yes now we get down to the value of a fiat currency. The regal has no intrinsic value it is purely a medium of transaction. This pertains to real life as well. The USD and most other currency are just fiat currency regulated by central banks.
Im not going to redact my statement. The fact that you believe in a conservative mini economy that you have participated in extensively, but continue to shill for a socialist irl economy only goes to show that you just have not participated enough in the real economy to fully grasp tbe free rider issue.
god this is such an ignorant statement and this statement alone actually makes me not want to read the rest of what you wrote, or anything you will write. A virtual economy such as in Massive (with restoring resources and whatnot) is VASTLY different than an IRL economy. Thank you actually for showing us what @Alj23 said in both respects. It shows me that he understands economy and how it works and that its leagues different on Massive.
One little tidbit as a reminder:
Both faction players and role-players use Regals. For faction players, Regals aren't as big since it only goes to pay for upkeep and the occasional armor purchase.
Roleplayers use Regals to pay for the 300r+ rental upkeep for their houses, as well as for purchasing items to use in said RP. I haven't done the math, but there's definitely a distinct difference in who uses Regals more.
Just wanted to mention the other half of the server, since I feel this is starting to only involve the faction half, and there's a huge part of the community that also needs to be considered in the overall scheme of things.
Both faction players and role-players use Regals. For faction players, Regals aren't as big since it only goes to pay for upkeep and the occasional armor purchase.
Roleplayers use Regals to pay for the 300r+ rental upkeep for their houses, as well as for purchasing items to use in said RP. I haven't done the math, but there's definitely a distinct difference in who uses Regals more.
Just wanted to mention the other half of the server, since I feel this is starting to only involve the faction half, and there's a huge part of the community that also needs to be considered in the overall scheme of things.
Madus
Robot
Really? MassiveCraft has a vastly different economy than what exists in real life. First of all the state intervention on MassiveCraft is much much lower than in most OECD nations. No healthcare, no infrastructure, no social security, no education system, no military and ridiculously low taxes. So the market is not nearly as regulated as the least regulated economies in any OECD nation.
Not to mention all the other differences. Simply put, it is not comparable.
Thats why i really do thank @Sarge_Peppers for showing us that @Alj23 has two seperate opinions on the two seperate economic worlds. It adds more way credibility to the OP by showing that he actually knows a thing or two about economics
ulumulu1510
Magical Assistant
I am here assuming you have no idea what kind of an undertaking it is to code a replacement for MCMMO.
Yes, in essence it would be best if MassiveCraft would not have any third party plugins what so ever! BUT: How would you do that? A plugin is a tremendous amount of work, countless of hours planning, looking for competitors, coding, testing and coding again. We are not speaking of weeks of work, but multiple months of work per plugin per developer. Take MassiveLock as an example: It's feature set is overseeable and covers what the server needs. It took three developers 4.5 Months of work (only focusing on this single plugin) to finish it and publish it live to the players. And we are not done yet! That is multiple hundertst of hours of work, for a plugin that is a "core" feature of the server.
Let's take a step back and think about an MCMMO replacement:
- Planning: 20 - 50 hours
- First step layout in development: 50 - 150 hours
- Core functionalities: 100 - 200 hours
- Testing and adjustments: 50 - 150 hours
- Staff testing and another round of bug fixes: 50 hours
- Release and public testing: up to 100 hours
I am not saying we aren't aware, we are. But this is not the time to talk about replacing a plugin as time intense as mcmmo.
Madus
Robot
I would consider those estimates low.
Sarge_Peppers
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I completely understood the length of time it would take for a skill plugin to be made. I have been managing engineer projects for about 5 years now. I understand the exactly what you are saying. My post was targeting the fact that this mcmmo bubble did not appear out of no where. For the past 3 years we have seen this trend of McMMo becoming less and less effecient as more and more people grinded this dates back to the first pvprs with 2k axes, and fishing. This isn't new, and a myriad of suggestions have been posted overtime to do something about it, and a lot of them had to do with removal and or mass overhaul.
It is easy though to look at this problem in retrospect. Hindsight is 20/20. This is probally the first time I looked at this issue with the sunk cost fallacy in mind.
We could in theory reset it, but because of the growth of technology that has come about. It wouldn't take much time for people to be back at their stat levels and the whole trend would just start over again
It really is just a giant mess that one has to step back from to really get a grasp of how it effects the economy.
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sure, it is easy enough to grind axes and stuff, but there are some skill trees that take weeks or months of grinding to get to 1000 (Alchemy, taming, etc...). I've said this on previous posts but honestly, if mcmmo is reset most of the people that have gotten to those high levels in the more obscure trees will just not bother to do so again.
Sarge_Peppers
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Define obscure tree? Alchemy has a lot of economic upside to grinding. As stated in my original post.
I guess obscure would be the trees that aren't really as popular as the others in daily situations, like taming and fishing.
I don't think Alchemy counts, despite a long level up. It's still very viable and useful
I don't think Alchemy counts, despite a long level up. It's still very viable and useful
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Taming, for instance
Sarge_Peppers
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Now that i am at home rather than work I can now more thoroughly answer you. You seem to think that there is an issue with people not regrinding these skills after a reset. There are three reasons people grind their stats:
The first reason people grind their stats is for the economic value. People want high Axes, so they can raid better, get more loot, and tribute, or people used to fish, so they could fish up all these neat things to sell.
The second reason people grind their stats is almost a sub reason of economic value, and that is incidental grinding. For example, my business used to have many specialties. We used to dig darkrooms, and terraform land. Through these actions we would gain Mining, and Excavation levels. Another example would be someone who grinds in a darkroom all day, for the regals, xp and loot. They don't necessarily want the PvP stats, but they are getting the stats anyways because of the nature of their work.
The last reason people grind their stats is for the cosmetic value. For example I grinded 1500 unarmed because I wanted to pass the original master fister Jett56, or some people just like the feeling of being on /mctop. They don't necessarily do it for the economic value, or even because it is incidental. They just "achievement whore" it is a common occurrence in MMOs.
If we look at what would happen Day 1 of McMMo reset we would see people immediately grinding stats that they believe are economically valuable. One would see a spike in PvP stats because of the shear amount of PvPrs the reset would effect, but we would also see a steady increase of other skills. People grinding herbalism for the replant buff, and Alchemy because the Resistance pot market will now have a finite supply until people begin reaching the level to make res pots. People would also be gaining skills incidentally in like mining and excavation because of the nature of their work.
The question is what kind of effect does an McMMo reset really have on the population? I think little as I said above. The technology is already there, and the economy is already saturated with grinding supplies. Rarely does anyone buy darkrooms even to a point where some volunteers have begun managing public darkrooms, and because of beacons. I doubt anyone would be in the market of buying bulk strength pots. The only upside to an McMMo reset would be people buying McMMo XP boosters, but in theory many non Bayesian people might get rid of their premium because they are upset with the reset. This of course is an effect of people giving in to the sunk cost falacy rather than ignoring their sunk costs they will get upset. This is quite common, and is difficult for less mature people to understand.
This issue cannot be resolved by just a reset of McMMo that would only be a short term potential remedy, but also potential recker. I personally think a full server reset would be more effective than just a McMMo reset.
The one thing that I know for certain is that if economists on the server continue to pedal their feet, and make a few posts, but then go dormant. Then the big ideas that are needed to really fix the economy will not come until it is too late. Just look at the McMMo bubble this issue needed to be resolved 3 years ago, but unfortunately at that time we did not see the bubble. Hindsight is 20/20 the best thing we can do is work on well thought out ideas for the future.
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You have to remember that this isn't a server based only off economic theory, this is a MINECRAFT server where people go on to have fun. Now I haven't been playing on here for too long, so it wouldn't effect me as much as others, but think about the factions that have been around for years. Now imagine how they would feel if suddenly all of the work that they have been doing on their base for the last x amount of years suddenly vanishes just to allow the economy to improve a little bit. I don't know about you, but there is nothing that would keep me playing on a server that did that if I invested that much time into it. Now I may be misinterpreting what you mean by that, but this mindset has been bothering me lately.
This is a Minecraft server, and ultimately it has to be fun to play on. If you fix the economy at the expense of this, then there is nothing keeping the players from leaving.
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OK I have a comment about the economy.The problem is the free market,I can waltz into this /tp market and buy whatever I want,I know it's for convenience,but a merchant fac can't win a war against a bunch of pvpers because they can't economically strangle them and stop selling god,and pay others off to stop making god.Or at the market we could let merchants tell ikt they won't sell to certain players or factions
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