• Inventory Split Incoming

    MassiveCraft will be implementing an inventory split across game modes to improve fairness, balance, and player experience. Each game mode (Roleplay and Survival) will have its own dedicated inventory going forward. To help players prepare, we’ve opened a special storage system to safeguard important items during the transition. For full details, read the announcement here: Game Mode Inventory Split blog post.

    Your current inventories, backpacks, and ender chest are in the shared Medieval inventory. When the new Roleplay inventory is created and assigned to the roleplay world(s) you will lose access to your currently stored items.

    Important Dates

    • April 1: Trunk storage opens.
    • May 25: Final day to submit items for storage.
    • June 1: Inventories are officially split.

    Please make sure to submit any items you wish to preserve in the trunk storage or one of the roleplay worlds before the deadline. After the split, inventories will no longer carry over between game modes.

My Thoughts On The Community

Do you ever feel shunned or bullied by any of the players here at MassiveCraft?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 52 68.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 24 31.6%

  • Total voters
    76
Status
Not open for further replies.

Johto_Jo

Irresponsible Father
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Hello MassiveCraft!

I'd like to first start off by saying hi and apologize for my inactivity in the last couple of months. I'm not going to make excuses or try to justify my absence, but let's just say that I've been doing a great deal of thinking.

Perhaps I should also begin by addressing the environment of this server recently, that it isn't exactly what it used to be-- or so I've noticed through personal experience. I won't claim that it's been entirely negative as of late, mostly because I typically try to be an optimistic person in general, but there have been some instances that have most certainly disheartened me, even going so far as to nudging me closer to lose faith in specific people or groups.

While this is to be expected in a large population that's based on the internet, that people change under different circumstances and surroundings, I only wish that the more mature folk, the older players, veterans, remember: this is a game, a game that was designed for a younger demographic. Minecraft is a hobby. It is a pastime, something that is used for enjoyment and recreation. It is meant to be /fun/.

I'm aware that there are a list of regulations/guidelines for the server, which are all warranted and should be followed. Additionally, there are set punishments that are required to be carried out when these rules are violated. Without rules, there is chaos. Massive is contained in an orderly manner, something that isn't easily achieved without proper moderation. Staff-ranked individuals do a commendable job in maintaining the peace, preventing mayhem, and distributing discipline to those that have earned it; however, sometimes the fashion in which they, or other long-time players, go about handling unfavorable incidents or misbehaving folk can be a little less praiseworthy.

I think it's rather easy to forget that most of the player-base here is of a younger age, an age that is easily impressionable and molded in a variety of ways. Patience is a requirement when communicating with children or adolescents, and even when dealing with humans in general. We're a prideful species, and while we're not 'insects', I feel that the expression, "you attract more flies with honey than vinegar," applies to this situation just the same. New and younger roleplayers are still important to the server.

All of them add to the environment, creating further opportunities for in-character interactions, and some even have plenty to offer Massive and its advancement. When correcting new people in-game, I didn't often see patience exhibited by the more veteran players, rather an almost superior tone was taken with the transgressor, as if the person in question wasn't worth their effort. Often times, vets may even reply OOC with, "just ignore them", which does essentially nothing to help the newbie grow and most likely only succeeds in insulting him/her. Why remain on a server that shuns you?

Perhaps some veteran players have forgotten that who they're dealing with are human beings, beings that we share this Earth with. Beings that are just like you and me. Beings that feel, can be vulnerable, feel helpless or bullied. Speaking down to them in a harsh manner can cause them to feel insignificant or even hurt while they're playing a game online-- a place where they escape to in order to become someone /else/ that is free, happy or strong. This isn't going to do anything for their confidence, and sometimes, that confidence is already so low that this sort of treatment threatens to compromise their mental or emotional stability.

Not all of you are bad. In fact, a considerable portion of you are really, really great people. I used to be very good friends with a handful of well-known players, but since my inactivity and shift in server preference, I've felt an overwhelming sensation of estrangement. Alienation. It's almost as if I've got a plague that these people in question don't wish to catch, and if /I'm/ enduring this sort of petty treatment-- me, a person that I'd like to believe is pleasant toward most of those that I meet until you give me reason not to be-- who's to say not more of you are being exposed to much worse conduct and negative behavior such as derogatory comments and unwholesome opinions, regardless of whether it's to the face or behind the back.

In conclusion, I beseech those that read this to try and take on a more positive attitude. To better themselves for the benefit of this community. We're all in this together, so why not make friends instead of enemies?

tl;dr :
I think we can all be nicer to one another. You have the capability and I believe in you.

That's all I have to offer at the moment. If you're curious about any of the points I've made, feel free to comment below. Thank you so much for getting this far, even if you've only managed to click on the link that brought you here. You're more than welcome to contact me on Skype if you feel trapped or bullied-- nightmayer91's the name. I'm not super great at advice, but sometimes it helps to have a shoulder to lean on.
 
Aw, it's so true. I feel touched by this and I'll admit that I was like that some time, but I've been working on being nicer to newer players so I actually feel like I accomplished something. I'm sure lots of other players, new or veteran ones, appreciate it as well and thank you for taking the time to write this!
 
In conclusion, I beseech those that read this to try and take on a more positive attitude. To better themselves for the benefit of this community. We're all in this together, so why not make friends instead of enemies?
You are very brave to share this Kelpsy, this is exactly what we need right now. I totally agree that salt has accumulated in the chat channels. If you are THAT frustrated you can just grab a rock, go into nature and throw it on a tree and scream for a good 30 minutes. I promise you, you'll feel much better, as well as the people around you. <3 Don't let it out on fellow people, because they WILL get hurt, it isn't even questionable. Best vibes
 
I think it's rather easy to forget that most of the player-base here is of a younger age, an age that is easily impressionable and molded in a variety of ways. Patience is a requirement when communicating with children or adolescents, and even when dealing with humans in general.

The average and median age of a Minecraft multiplayer gamer is 16. As far as I have noticed in the roleplay scene, the mean and median age is 15-16 there as well.

When it comes to attitude, it's far easier to deal with bullying, saltiness and other confrontations if you understand the fact that the vast majority are high school students.

And by that, I mean almost any psychological phenomenon. And no, I'm not an exception. I know I bicker a lot and I knoe I can fall to peer pressure. All of us do. But as long as you perceive Massivecraft as the garden of the average American high school during a break, you'll understand thr behaviour patterns.

That is to say, we do have older and younger people as well, along with less and more mature community members. Try and show a good example, I guess, and you'll be fine.

I'll write more when I get to my comp.
 
I understand what you're saying Kelpsy. The avoidance offered when you've taken a hiatus or simply quit and decided to pick Massive craft again like I have recently. When I do this, people act kinda rude about my rp and crap.
The community itself could definitely do better about treating new comers with respect, but I see little hope when they treat people who have RPed for years with disrespect. Almost as if taking a break was taboo.

More power to you Kelpsy, I hope you feel alright after you've gotten this out.
 
Almost as if taking a break was taboo.
Very good point. I've experienced this myself, where inactivity becomes a cause of talk and rumor, and overall toxicity. It sometimes feels to players that breaks aren't allowed.

Friendly reminder to the public. You are allowed to take breaks from Massive if you feel fit.
 
The average and median age of a Minecraft multiplayer gamer is 16. As far as I have noticed in the roleplay scene, the mean and median age is 15-16 there as well.

When it comes to attitude, it's far easier to deal with bullying, saltiness and other confrontations if you understand the fact that the vast majority are high school students.

And by that, I mean almost any psychological phenomenon. And no, I'm not an exception. I know I bicker a lot and I knoe I can fall to peer pressure. All of us do. But as long as you perceive Massivecraft as the garden of the average American high school during a break, you'll understand thr behaviour patterns.

That is to say, we do have older and younger people as well, along with less and more mature community members. Try and show a good example, I guess, and you'll be fine.

I'll write more when I get to my comp.
I'll wait until you get back and finish your thought before I reply to this, then. :>
 
I feel like a large amount of people were afraid to bring this up. Thank you for having the courage to do it!
 
An excellent thought, and you've managed to sum it up in a way that is more encouraging than demoralizing. I appreciate that.

As I've traversed through a vast majority of online communities throughout my life, I've noted that such occurrences and happenings go on in more places than just MassiveCraft. Well as a whole, I feel that the community here is more accepting than others, there are still a great deal of bad apples that SPOIL thy broth of friendliness and common courtesy.

Please, people! As you go on throughout your life online, never forget that you are communicating with another human being with their own nose shoved into a monitor as well. Because you are not interacting with others in a form that requires face-to-face communication, it gives you no right to downright be a boob to others. As you are seated upon your high horse, you mustn't forget that people in this online world have feelings too. Consider their emotions, think before you speak, your negative actions and piss-poor attitude online can often trickle down and affect these people in the big-bad real world. It doesn't mean you should have to walk on eggshells with every conversation you engage in, just be considerate before you engage yourself with others, or don't engage yourself at all.
 
I'll wait until you get back and finish your thought before I reply to this, then. :>

Alright, continuation.

Minecraft is a hobby. It is a pastime, something that is used for enjoyment and recreation. It is meant to be /fun/.

There's a lot of vague speculations I've made around based on personal experiences and close-hand experiences. While it can be easily defined as a hobby, massive is more like a pub you visit. The first-time experience, the tables, the parties, the strangers, the fluctuation in people. And with that sense, I'd also say it's like the mess-hall in high school. Most rules apply. Later, on that.

Staff-ranked individuals do a commendable job in maintaining the peace, preventing mayhem, and distributing discipline to those that have earned it; however, sometimes the fashion in which they, or other long-time players, go about handling unfavorable incidents or misbehaving folk can be a little less praiseworthy.

That's an interesting problem, but also one that's rather hard to solve. As a roleplayer, I'm trying to keep an open attitude to new players, yet there's still only a degree to which one can be friendly. Say, you meet someone in Regalia who roleplays a Twilight-esque vampire. You talk to them OOC, point them to the vampire page with a smile and everything's all fine, they learned that there's actual vampire lore written with bloodlines. Then comes the second. The third. And in the end, even if you keep up the positive attitude, you're inclined to have those back-thoughts of 'Why don't they just use the freakin' Wiki?!'. It's justified in a sense, yet it's negative. I reckon the more veteran a player is, the more they have dealt with such.

In the end, it's all about patience, and we all run out of it one day. Compare this to any relevant high-school situation, and you'll see.

When correcting new people in-game, I didn't often see patience exhibited by the more veteran players, rather an almost superior tone was taken with the transgressor, as if the person in question wasn't worth their effort. Often times, vets may even reply OOC with, "just ignore them", which does essentially nothing to help the newbie grow and most likely only succeeds in insulting him/her.

I've experienced this, yes. The true problem is differentiating between sheer roleplay disruption and the arrival of a new player. There was an RP situation a few weeks back when we had some discussion in the tavern between some elves and humans about unionism. Another elf arrived, claimed to be thousands of years old and commented Sun-Tzu like wisdom on random sentences spoken in the conversation. In that situation, there was the true question of whether one wants to keep the roleplay consistent and going as it had been (not putting a stop to the faint 'fun' of around 6 people), include the player in the roleplay (that possibly results in IC ridicule and the such) or talk to them OOC (which breaks the RP situation, fulfilling the disruption part).

For one thing sure, I have an utter hatred and spite for reverse-metagame based insults (blaming a character for not knowing something, this non-knowledge resulting from the player's non-knowledge. EG: not being able to recite creeds fast enough, not knowing lore that's relevant to player's history, unintentionally missing a noble title, etc). So it's either the first or the third way I usually go. Feel free to critique that.

Perhaps some veteran players have forgotten that who they're dealing with are human beings, beings that we share this Earth with.

And this is where the high-school comparison comes into play. I'll stick to roleplay, because that's the scene where I usually am. You are in a situation and a new player approaches the roleplay mini-event you are participating in (let's make it a tavern discussion). In a sense, this is like sitting with your friends at a table in the mess hall, and a stranger approaches you. What's the most logical and probable thing to happen? The group of friends passes a judgement on the newcomer. If they deem them 'worthy' of attention, they'll pull them in and share the fun. If not, they'll ignore, tell them to go away or ridicule them with saltiness. That's how it is in high school, that's how it is on massive.

The question is, what degree of 'judgement' you pass. It's different for each of us, perhaps some cliques are rather strict (trying to enter a noble discussion may compare to trying to just sit down at the jock table), while some are extremely open (I've seen lots of players eager to help).

My true problem is that I myself tend to pass such judgment as well. There are numerous factors that can make me feel extremely dis-inclined to roleplay with someone I don't know. And I'll be open about it, since we all seem to be rather honest here. I'm a grammar freak and I bail out from terrible grammar. I usually don't attempt to convince vampire roleplayers who come to the tavern to bite people, and I tend to avoid roleplay with Kleinfolk because ... in all honesty, I can't really see value in cuteness roleplay that's usually about. I shy away from people who are really slow to respond as well. That's ... probably the most of it. There surely is more.

And based on this, the main problem with 'new' players I reckon is the guide-reading problem. The influx of players is divided between those who take a look at the massive website before arrival, and those that just join up, perhaps reading up some things in-game.

The first group usually gets well-treatment, them reading up or whatever doesn't mean that they are all-knowing about the lore, the contrary. The only thing they usually have is a fairly compliant character-idea and a sense of the general atmosphere, nothing extraordinary.

The second group are usually cast aside on first-time judgment because of their character concept or lack of sense in regards to the atmosphere. A shame, truly.

All in all, in regards to 'acceptance' to new players, I see two variables here, those who accept and those who seek to be accepted, with something to do on both sides. The older players can become more open and less repulsive towards newer ones, and the newer ones can make them seem 'more worthy to accept' in the eyes of the veterans by arriving with a sense of knowledge about the world around them. Human beings on both sides, aiming to connect. One shouldn't wait for the other to be completely open to any approach. When you're sitting by your table in the mess hall and someone new approaches, the question of whether they'll be accepted to your table or not hinges on the behaviour of both of you. The newcomer can be respectful, can display positive curiosity, can be friendly and warm themselves to motivate those already sitting at the table to accept them. Perhaps they actually know the names and courses taken by those sitting? Who knows.

We're all in this together, so why not make friends instead of enemies?

That last part, especially in roleplay, is the key to most confrontations OOC I reckon. Most of Massive is driven by friendly confrontations: player versus player relies on players pitted against each other (duhh), factions raid and war, roleplay involves enemies, rivals, betrayals and such. If you take the confrontation away, the game becomes dull and repetitive: there's only a number of mobs you can kill until you crave a real challenge, there's only a size of faction you can build up before getting bored and wanting to start over. And there's just the amount of pleasantries roleplay you can have without conflict in the drama.

Yet in-game confrontation results in OOC confrontations almost every time. PvP people flame, argue and curse, factions belittle each other and roleplayers go all-out salty for numerous reasons. Indeed, it's the understanding that it's 'only a game' that keeps the scene away from true hatred. The ability to raid a faction and make it fun for both sides, the ability to drive or accept scheming in roleplay to drive a story or the ability to fight your friend in a duel. And I don't think these will ever come true, for numerous reasons. Raids aren't fun and often bar you from your everyday survival RP, PvP is about victory and being defeated brings sheer frustration 99% the time and roleplay is just a mess with author-insertion, self-glorification, general sociopathy, mary sueism and general bitterness contributing towards roleplay drivers going too far and the more passive actors seeking to prevent them wherever they can with cold steel to preserve their characters as they picture they should be. We all commit these, yes. You, me, he and she.

Can you do something against this latter part? Surely you can. It's hard indeed, but rewarding.

That's all I have to offer at the moment. If you're curious about any of the points I've made, feel free to comment below.

And I tried to offer a reply-rant of a sort. In a sense, I think you are right for one side. But online interaction between people always has two sides, and in a lot of cases there's something to be found on both.
 
I agree. The community especially the PVP community is insanely toxic and take the game way too seriously
to the point where it ruins experiences for lots of people, and this is coming from a current active pvper.
 
I eventually left Massivecraft due to differences caused by things such as those you listed. People who ignore you when you're gone and you come back. Veteran roleplayers who just push you to one side or instead of correcting your roleplay, just comment on it behind your back and make you feel like you don't belong. It's a horrible, horrible feeling, especially when those same people lulled you into a false sense of security and made you feel like you were their friend, and then once you had gotten comfortable they pulled the rug out from under you. The Massive community needs to reevaluate their way of going about things like player quarrels and disagreements and roleplay incompliancy. It's not healthy, and is driving people away.
 
The fact that 22 people, and counting, have been bullied by people here is really saying something.
And that isn't a good something.
 
@Medvekoma

While it can be easily defined as a hobby, massive is more like a pub you visit. The first-time experience, the tables, the parties, the strangers, the fluctuation in people. And with that sense, I'd also say it's like the mess-hall in high school. Most rules apply.
While the player base is predominantly adolescent and is rooted in high-school behavior, I like to think that the average age of MassiveCraft moderators is above that level, and, if not, their maturity should transcend their peers simply because they're considered trustworthy enough to join the ranks of staff. My greatest issue is that some of those that are looked up to, such as veteran roleplayers or those with blue-marked names, tend to forget that they're the cream of the crop-- that they're role-models and should lead by example.


I reckon the more veteran a player is, the more they have dealt with such.
In the end, it's all about patience, and we all run out of it one day. Compare this to any relevant high-school situation, and you'll see.
Again, you revert to the same topic as before.

Patience is, indeed, a virtue, and it is increasingly scarce this day and age; even moreso online; but that's not a proper excuse to just sweep that issue under the rug. What I'm requesting through this thread is that we all exhibit a calmer composure. Be kind. Pay it forward; try not to expect something in return.

We've all either been through high-school, are currently enduring it, or will be within the next year or so. This is a place to /escape/ that mundane routine, to /escape/ the negativity, to /escape/ our problems through interacting with one another in an entirely different world here at Massive. I'll reiterate my point: MineCraft is a game.

I've experienced this, yes. The true problem is differentiating between sheer roleplay disruption and the arrival of a new player.
Yes, this is often times difficult; however, once conversing with this player in question, most would find it blatantly obvious whether or not it's an attempt at trolling or a genuinely lost player that had just joined. A quick /seen command could certainly remedy that, which can sometimes provide you with an immediate answer.

For one thing sure, I have an utter hatred and spite for reverse-metagame based insults (blaming a character for not knowing something, this non-knowledge resulting from the player's non-knowledge. EG: not being able to recite creeds fast enough, not knowing lore that's relevant to player's history, unintentionally missing a noble title, etc). So it's either the first or the third way I usually go. Feel free to critique that.
It's fairly simple to merely ask OOC if the player is certain they want to stick with their response. If they wish for their character to be well versed in a subject that they, as a player, know little about, perhaps suggest a different option, or even link them to some reading material on the subject for future use. While this can get tedious, due to the frequency of these sort of exchanges, I feel that there are plenty of veterans/staff out there that can dilute said duty so that it doesn't all lie on one or two individuals' shoulders. We can operate as a team.

And this is where the high-school comparison comes into play. I'll stick to roleplay, because that's the scene where I usually am. You are in a situation and a new player approaches the roleplay mini-event you are participating in (let's make it a tavern discussion). In a sense, this is like sitting with your friends at a table in the mess hall, and a stranger approaches you. What's the most logical and probable thing to happen? The group of friends passes a judgement on the newcomer. If they deem them 'worthy' of attention, they'll pull them in and share the fun. If not, they'll ignore, tell them to go away or ridicule them with saltiness. That's how it is in high school, that's how it is on massive.

The question is, what degree of 'judgement' you pass. It's different for each of us, perhaps some cliques are rather strict (trying to enter a noble discussion may compare to trying to just sit down at the jock table), while some are extremely open (I've seen lots of players eager to help).
I'm just not satisfied with this sort of answer.

I have the tendency to believe that a good portion of us are actually outcasts in the society that we interact with on a daily basis-- this is the case for myself, so I suppose I'll chalk this up as self-experience-- therefore, in a way, some of us are bound by this similarity. Additionally, we all obviously have a love for MineCraft, roleplay, and medieval themes. If this isn't enough to help us shatter the barrier presented forth because we're all essentially strangers to begin with, then perhaps I've held too much faith in humanity. Again, I'm an optimist and I trust my gut instincts.

My true problem is that I myself tend to pass such judgment as well. There are numerous factors that can make me feel extremely dis-inclined to roleplay with someone I don't know. And I'll be open about it, since we all seem to be rather honest here. I'm a grammar freak and I bail out from terrible grammar. I usually don't attempt to convince vampire roleplayers who come to the tavern to bite people, and I tend to avoid roleplay with Kleinfolk because ... in all honesty, I can't really see value in cuteness roleplay that's usually about. I shy away from people who are really slow to respond as well. That's ... probably the most of it. There surely is more.
As a staff-member, a great chunk of the population look up to you for guidance, interactive roleplay, and acceptance. While not all moderators are required to step out of their own comfort zone in order to include others, I would assume that it's an underlying responsibility that is commonly expected of you and your colleagues.

If you, as a blue-name, aren't readily eager to reach out, selflessly extending a hand to those less prominent than you and your friends, then what of the remaining population of the server? Again, I think that the most effective way to lead is by example; this confession, while I don't wish to attack you specifically, is one of the reasons as to why I felt the need to post my thoughts. I'm concerned that those with power, be it small or great, may have forgotten the reason we all log in: to play.

All in all, in regards to 'acceptance' to new players, I see two variables here, those who accept and those who seek to be accepted, with something to do on both sides. The older players can become more open and less repulsive towards newer ones, and the newer ones can make them seem 'more worthy to accept' in the eyes of the veterans by arriving with a sense of knowledge about the world around them.

Human beings on both sides, aiming to connect. One shouldn't wait for the other to be completely open to any approach.

When you're sitting by your table in the mess hall and someone new approaches, the question of whether they'll be accepted to your table or not hinges on the behaviour of both of you. The newcomer can be respectful, can display positive curiosity, can be friendly and warm themselves to motivate those already sitting at the table to accept them. Perhaps they actually know the names and courses taken by those sitting? Who knows.
This is a very valid point. Interaction isn't a one-sided deal; however, we are all new at some point. Yes, it does a person well to read up on the lore and the rules before joining-- in fact, I believe that's one of the stipulations mentioned at the beginning of your first log in [from what I can remember]-- but, there is a great deal to read and some items could be easily overlooked if in a hurry to leap into roleplay. Us veteran players should be here to fill in the gaps, not ridicule or judge those that aren't as well-versed as a college professor.

Now, if the player in question is a 'troll', then that can easily be dealt with through creating a ticket, where staff can take matters into their own hands-- which are trusted, responsible hands-- and administer either a warning or a punishment fitting for the transgression.

That last part, especially in roleplay, is the key to most confrontations OOC I reckon. Most of Massive is driven by friendly confrontations: player versus player relies on players pitted against each other (duhh), factions raid and war, roleplay involves enemies, rivals, betrayals and such. If you take the confrontation away, the game becomes dull and repetitive: there's only a number of mobs you can kill until you crave a real challenge, there's only a size of faction you can build up before getting bored and wanting to start over. And there's just the amount of pleasantries roleplay you can have without conflict in the drama.
In-character.
OOC arguments shouldn't escalate to severe hostilities, but if they do, it is important to be the bigger person and walk away. Allow the flames to smolder, the dust to settle. What I've noticed is that it's fairly common for one party to try and one-up the opposing group or individual. What good does that do? The victor's pride is left intact? They've managed to word-slap a twelve year old? Congratulations.

Problems arise. It /is/ in human nature to compete, but perhaps it's better to live out these fantasies through roleplay rather than volley back and forth OOC? It wastes time and takes away from the experience.

Yet in-game confrontation results in OOC confrontations almost every time. PvP people flame, argue and curse, factions belittle each other and roleplayers go all-out salty for numerous reasons. Indeed, it's the understanding that it's 'only a game' that keeps the scene away from true hatred.
While 'true hatred' is an extreme form of distaste, there is certainly bad blood between specific players or groups. Cliques are evident in the Massive infrastructure and this isn't something that can just be done away with; however, there are grey areas between these conglomerates of players. We can step out of our comfort zone just a bit in order to expand our roleplay experience and reach out to people we wouldn't normally converse with. This is a positive for both parties involved, and may even close the gap between those that are hellbent on feuding with a particular, isolated crowd.

Baby steps, all taken by everyone, tends to dilute the entirety of the problem into something more manageable.

We all commit these, yes. You, me, he and she.

Can you do something against this latter part? Surely you can. It's hard indeed, but rewarding.
We all can, even in tiny increments. I used to be highly active in the roleplay scene and it was a rare case if I lost my patience. If I'm capable of playing guide-- me, a meek, shy, and socially awkward personality-- then I'm beyond positive that there are others that can give it a shot.

I have faith.

And I tried to offer a reply-rant of a sort. In a sense, I think you are right for one side. But online interaction between people always has two sides, and in a lot of cases there's something to be found on both.
Excuses can be made, but I will say that a good handful of my closest friends have been hurt by individuals that play quite actively here on Massive. This post isn't for myself. I'm not upset about the treatment I've been given. I'm enraged that so many of my friends come to me with complaints regarding bullying and isolation. This shouldn't be a common occurrence. We're better than that. We're more intelligent than that.

---
All I ask is that we give this a try. Be kind. Keep in mind that sometimes there's more to the surface of a person. I'll say it again: we're all in this together.
 
I even do this.. I don't mean to, but it happens. And honestly, Im just gonna apologize here, because I dont even realise that I was being rude until it was too late. Thanks for making this post, I think we all needed to read this.
 
Either way, it never hurts to try and be nicer. Whether over the Internet, in High School, or in real life. It's easy to forget, but we've gotta fight hate with love. Thanks for the reminder.
 
Med inspired me to reply. So I will. Firstly, thanks for writing this! It was an interesting read.

Perhaps I should also begin by addressing the environment of this server recently, that it isn't exactly what it used to be-- or so I've noticed through personal experience. I won't claim that it's been entirely negative as of late, mostly because I typically try to be an optimistic person in general, but there have been some instances that have most certainly disheartened me, even going so far as to nudging me closer to lose faith in specific people or groups.

For the sake of remaining objective to the point, I feel some things need to be stressed. Generally speaking when making an analysis, it's required that adequate information and arguments to support a point are presented. For the sake of perspective, I'm going to toss up the idea that you're only exposed to a small quantity of players, roleplay very limited times, not even in prime time, don't participate in events, or generally keep your scope limited to what you're comfortable with. That's totally okay, after all, players aren't required to engage with anyone more than they want to or can. But it presents a bit of an issue in terms of making sure the information is accurate and engaging. I've gotten into personal essays/rants in the past but I've always felt it was always just affirmation or speaking to the choir. A whole bunch of people who share this opinion will flock to your banner, cognitive bias if you want. They want to believe everything here is true to avoid taking any responsibility for the issues they may have been part of or caused. Note all of this doesn't mean your points are invalid (if I'd claim that, I'd fall into the ad-hoc strawman anyway). Before stepping into further reply however, I wanted to establish a perspective or relativity to opposing opinions/supporting opinions etc.

On the case of your optimism. Totally. But. I hope you're not offended if I say you let yourself get walked all over by anyone and their grandmother. Often when it comes to being exposed to negative behavior from others, it's important to put boundaries on what is okay and what isn't. The only way people can improve themselves is if they specifically know what they are specifically doing wrong. In the case of being so "Optimistic/Permitting", you're assisting in setting a standard as well. If a situation technically makes you uncomfortable but you just reply to it with "sure x3" to avoid making the other person sad or causing conflict, they are just going to do that same thing with others as well when those boundaries aren't set. To make a more practical example, I'm not going to point fingers, but I'm sure you remember a person who discussed killing your character with theirs. This subject was then levied from you, to your friends. Then from your friends to the Lore staff. Then from the Lore staff to me. Then eventually about a week later, I talked to the person who made you feel presumably uncomfortable about talking to everyone and their grandmother about how you and they were going to kill your characters together. On a different Teamspeak. When you back paddle and see the roller coaster that took, the piece of information passed trough at least 3 or 4 circuits of people/groups of people who didn't want to/didn't have the courage to be confrontational with the individual and thus just relayed responsibility over to others. I, a person who was completely unrelated to the matter, in a communication circuit unrelated to MassiveCraft almost, had to confront this person to try and correct their behavior, by telling them it's not okay to start parading around someone else's character death. This obviously probably made the person feel sad and made me look like a mean and down putting person because I criticized them. Now I'm the bogeyman, this person probably carries the belief that the "rumors" about me are true, all because along that entire line of people nobody could just say "Dude, stop it please, I don't want my/her character to die".

Your post was wonderfully written, and true in so many ways. It's just too bad the same thing as the above applies. People shoving responsibility from one ping pong to the other. Your appeal was open and non-directly accusatory. A whole wash list of replies after it instead were one directional. "We are not the problem, everyone else is. We are clean of any guilt and blame!" It's the general problem of people making a smart and well written post that causes people to feel personally addressed. They flock to the thread to convince themselves and others of their innocence in the matter.

Minecraft is a hobby. It is a pastime, something that is used for enjoyment and recreation. It is meant to be /fun/.

For the sake of keeping an open perspective also, please be aware that this statement is totally not true. For yourself and your immediate surrounding, Minecraft may be a hobby, but this is only limited to your scope. Between myself, Cayorion and Thortuna, we have all poured almost 15 combined years into the server that is MassiveCraft. For the lack of a better description, for some of us MassiveCraft (and by extension Minecraft) is out life's work and our business. Cayorion and myself purely survive income wise on MassiveCraft (I of course to a much more limited scope than he does), but the end point remains is that most of us wake up, and go to bed with Minecraft/MassiveCraft. Then we're not talking about the people who use Minecraft as an escape mechanism to whatever they deal with in the outside world, and to say Minecraft is just a "hobby" for those people who come home from school and immediately jump on Massive until they go to bed, loyally for nearly 2-3 years. They check the forum every waking half hour. Can this really be considered a hobby anymore? People are creatures of habit. When a habit defines how you spend your time, it means it's become part of your life. It's both a wonderful realization in that something I've worked on is so important to hundreds of people, but it's also a scary realization in terms of how worked up and emotional people can get over it.

Beings that feel, can be vulnerable, feel helpless or bullied.

I'm totally supportive of your anti-bullying undertone. I don't think anyone can actually disagree to say they haven't been bullied. God knows I've had to endure two years in early high school. I was friends with a popular kid. Eventually we fell out because I was a bad friend to him (too much taking, too little giving) and bullying became the new cool thing. Ten years after that fact, I can look back and admit I caused the whole situation by behaving anti-socially and being a general twat when it came to academic pursuits in school. Note I'm not voiding any blame on the other subject, but we were both 13 at the time and obviously didn't know how to communicate as adults or talk about our wubby feelings, nor did I have introspection capabilities as a teenager. The same thing sort of applies to whatever bullying may occur on MassiveCraft, and in many cases even the term itself is being misused. Bullying, to me anyway, is someone being targeted for what/who they are instead of what they behave like. Say I target @SupremeCripple and make wheelchair jokes at him all day long. I've got a certain leeway since we're friends, but let's say for the sake of the argument, I'm not. If I ridicule him for that, I'm bullying him. If however I criticize the person next to him by saying "I don't like your roleplay, it's too sexual", and I then avoid said person because I don't want to get involved with their roleplay, it's not bullying. The world isn't a utopia and one of the highest roleplay liberties players have on Massive is that no one can force roleplay on anyone else. Laissez-faire is a wonderful political ideology that we largely follow in that regard. But it does really challenge.

People don't get bullied for no reason. I refuse to believe any Human can inherently be so evil that they will just randomly target a random individual and start causing shit for the sake of it. Instead of jumping the whole "I'm being bullied!" train. Spend a hard time thinking why you're being sidelined or rejected. Did you disappoint them after making promises? Does your roleplay simply not appeal to them? Don't they like how you disrespect something they like? Do they dislike how you constantly try to seize the attention in any group you're in? Don't they like how you always require the world from them, but don't give anything back yourself? Are you just a drama queen? Did someone else spend a lot of effort to please you and you just brush it off? Do you take them for granted? It's always necessary to introspect. Reflect. Babayonce recently linked me to this video, and I think it carries an important message, and particularly focus on the very last sentence of the video:
I'm going to toss up one final subject before making a conclusion.
but since my inactivity and shift in server preference, I've felt an overwhelming sensation of estrangement
I think the best way to reply to this isn't that you've become estranged because you've shifted in server preference, but particularly because your server preference has shifted to /that/ server. I don't think I need to cite any reasons why I used "that" in this example. But that's just conjunction on my side. I have no clue if anyone actually alienates you, just taking a random stab at a possibility. We've never actually communicated or interacted much personally. On the note of server preference though, I frequently swap server. I don't play for very long, but let's for the sake of remaining transparent I'll call them all by name because I often specifically decide to play on another server to pick up new ideas for Massive or learn what mistakes not to repeat. I played on Asmalur for a while with some lore people. It was a wonderful learning experience about what /not/ to do in terms of player rights, server white-listing and plugin support. Throughout our experience there we were upset because the players got upset at us for destabilizing the status quo of the roleplay world. (admittedly, we wanted to conquer the known world, but you can blame @Shuikenai for that). It was still fun to some degree though. The next server I went on was Uthrandir. I had less than a favorable experience there. Obviously when you join a smaller server, you get really welcoming messages, but that was about it really. Nobody made an effort to include me, educate me or be helpful in any way, which is a stark contrast to people like @Suzzie who are always ready to jump in OOCly to educate a new player on Massive, even when she isn't roleplaying at all. Then I went to Aetherys Ascended. That server is down now. I think. Some big drama spiel about the server owners ripping off thousands of dollars from the player base and then just fucking off. I could never really get into roleplay there because death perms didn't exist and you could just kill anyone nilly willy in pvp. And then finally I've gone around Lord of the Craft as well. My experience on that server was really short because a staff member immediately came down on me asking for a "private conversation" because he had "heard things about me". I was like "Yeah fuck that" and only came back once after that to check out their new builds.

The point is, elitism/cliquism/veteranism isn't unique to MassiveCraft. It happens literally everywhere, and I am in fact of the opinion it happens less on Massive than everywhere else because MassiveCraft is a white list free server and still successful in terms of roleplay (god knows many other server owners hate us for it). Note this is no way a claim to say "Ohlol, everything is fine here, there is no room for improvement". There is ALWAYS room for improvement. But I feel some people replying here are acting like MassiveCraft is about to descend into civil war because of some sort of toxic hold that has suddenly and magically grasped the community. In this case I'm going to be adding water to the vinegar /and/ wine by simply saying that there is always room for improvement, but nobody should act like the world is about to end, because it really isn't /that/ bad. Obviously when you compare it a server that runs 20 people that is largely founded on a tight knit group of friends, it's worse. But really. Consider the server you currently play on. Fast forward 3 years into the future, assume the server starts running for commercial success and you have on average 80-100 players on prime time. Do you really think it's still going to be the same? MassiveCraft started out that way, a server hosted between friends and some acquaintances. Everything was cooperative and friendly. MassiveCraft became what it is now, it grew, became more competitive and with competitive strangers comes salt. It almost argues in favor of just capping your server to 20 players and keeping it that way forever, but then MassiveCraft is ran different and couldn't comply to that.

So. On a concluding note (note this is an open appeal, not aimed at anyone in specific):
  • Wonderful post, well written, well explained, supportable opinions.
  • When reviewing these opinions (mine/op/posters) please keep perspective in count, and don't automatically assume all opinions are true. Remain skeptical. Require information and evidence. Then reflect again.
  • Do not fall into the victim complex. Being criticized for behaving like an asshole or in a way people don't like is not bullying. Take a hard look at yourself, realize your flaws and then understand why you may have been alienated or what you consider as "bullied".
  • Do not come to this thread professing how this server "needs to change", when you yourself have never given any inclination to change your deemed undesirable behavior/traits.
  • Do not shove all responsibility onto others.
If anything is to be taken from my wall text of death, it is this: Responsibility is something that is equally shared by all. Staff members have a responsibility to support a better atmosphere by punishing elitism. Players have a responsibility to support a better atmosphere by setting boundaries, being clear and supportive. Staff members have a responsibility to be nicer to players. Players have a responsibility to assist staff members in being nicer to players by being more understanding, treating them less like the enemy and having some faith.

If you have a problem with someone or a group of people FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TALK TO THEM. If you are afraid of them, ask someone close to them to do the talking for you. If you don't trust either to be decent Human beings in the conversation, you're already disrespecting them and kicking yourself in the shins to sabotage your own means to having a better experience.

If you come to this thread as an (ex-)player just to tell me/us how much is wrong about this server and how we need to change because you were the victim, then you honestly have something to think about in my opinion.
 
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I just finished a Dan Brown novel, I don't need this from you RN, Marty!
 
Med inspired me to reply. So I will. Firstly, thanks for writing this! It was an interesting read.



For the sake of remaining objective to the point, I feel some things need to be stressed. Generally speaking when making an analysis, it's required that adequate information and arguments to support a point are presented. For the sake of perspective, I'm going to toss up the idea that you're only exposed to a small quantity of players, roleplay very limited times, not even in prime time, don't participate in events, or generally keep your scope limited to what you're comfortable with. That's totally okay, after all, players aren't required to engage with anyone more than they want to or can. But it presents a bit of an issue in terms of making sure the information is accurate and engaging. I've gotten into personal essays/rants in the past but I've always felt it was always just affirmation or speaking to the choir. A whole bunch of people who share this opinion will flock to your banner, cognitive bias if you want. They want to believe everything here is true to avoid taking any responsibility for the issues they may have been part of or caused. Note all of this doesn't mean your points are invalid (if I'd claim that, I'd fall into the ad-hoc strawman anyway). Before stepping into further reply however, I wanted to establish a perspective or relativity to opposing opinions/supporting opinions etc.

On the case of your optimism. Totally. But. I hope you're not offended if I say you let yourself get walked all over by anyone and their grandmother. Often when it comes to being exposed to negative behavior from others, it's important to put boundaries on what is okay and what isn't. The only way people can improve themselves is if they specifically know what they are specifically doing wrong. In the case of being so "Optimistic/Permitting", you're assisting in setting a standard as well. If a situation technically makes you uncomfortable but you just reply to it with "sure x3" to avoid making the other person sad or causing conflict, they are just going to do that same thing with others as well when those boundaries aren't set. To make a more practical example, I'm not going to point fingers, but I'm sure you remember a person who discussed killing your character with theirs. This subject was then levied from you, to your friends. Then from your friends to the Lore staff. Then from the Lore staff to me. Then eventually about a week later, I talked to the person who made you feel presumably uncomfortable about talking to everyone and their grandmother about how you and they were going to kill your characters together. On a different Teamspeak. When you back paddle and see the roller coaster that took, the piece of information passed trough at least 3 or 4 circuits of people/groups of people who didn't want to/didn't have the courage to be confrontational with the individual and thus just relayed responsibility over to others. I, a person who was completely unrelated to the matter, in a communication circuit unrelated to MassiveCraft almost, had to confront this person to try and correct their behavior, by telling them it's not okay to start parading around someone else's character death. This obviously probably made the person feel sad and made me look like a mean and down putting person because I criticized them. Now I'm the bogeyman, this person probably carries the belief that the "rumors" about me are true, all because along that entire line of people nobody could just say "Dude, stop it please, I don't want my/her character to die".

Your post was wonderfully written, and true in so many ways. It's just too bad the same thing as the above applies. People shoving responsibility from one ping pong to the other. Your appeal was open and non-directly accusatory. A whole wash list of replies after it instead were one directional. "We are not the problem, everyone else is. We are clean of any guilt and blame!" It's the general problem of people making a smart and well written post that causes people to feel personally addressed. They flock to the thread to convince themselves and others of their innocence in the matter.



For the sake of keeping an open perspective also, please be aware that this statement is totally not true. For yourself and your immediate surrounding, Minecraft may be a hobby, but this is only limited to your scope. Between myself, Cayorion and Thortuna, we have all poured almost 15 combined years into the server that is MassiveCraft. For the lack of a better description, for some of us MassiveCraft (and by extension Minecraft) is out life's work and our business. Cayorion and myself purely survive income wise on MassiveCraft (I of course to a much more limited scope than he does), but the end point remains is that most of us wake up, and go to bed with Minecraft/MassiveCraft. Then we're not talking about the people who use Minecraft as an escape mechanism to whatever they deal with in the outside world, and to say Minecraft is just a "hobby" for those people who come home from school and immediately jump on Massive until they go to bed, loyally for nearly 2-3 years. They check the forum every waking half hour. Can this really be considered a hobby anymore? People are creatures of habit. When a habit defines how you spend your time, it means it's become part of your life. It's both a wonderful realization in that something I've worked on is so important to hundreds of people, but it's also a scary realization in terms of how worked up and emotional people can get over it.



I'm totally supportive of your anti-bullying undertone. I don't think anyone can actually disagree to say they haven't been bullied. God knows I've had to endure two years in early high school. I was friends with a popular kid. Eventually we fell out because I was a bad friend to him (too much taking, too little giving) and bullying became the new cool thing. Ten years after that fact, I can look back and admit I caused the whole situation by behaving anti-socially and being a general twat when it came to academic pursuits in school. Note I'm not voiding any blame on the other subject, but we were both 13 at the time and obviously didn't know how to communicate as adults or talk about our wubby feelings, nor did I have introspection capabilities as a teenager. The same thing sort of applies to whatever bullying may occur on MassiveCraft, and in many cases even the term itself is being misused. Bullying, to me anyway, is someone being targeted for what/who they are instead of what they behave like. Say I target @SupremeCripple and make wheelchair jokes at him all day long. I've got a certain leeway since we're friends, but let's say for the sake of the argument, I'm not. If I ridicule him for that, I'm bullying him. If however I criticize the person next to him by saying "I don't like your roleplay, it's too sexual", and I then avoid said person because I don't want to get involved with their roleplay, it's not bullying. The world isn't a utopia and one of the highest roleplay liberties players have on Massive is that no one can force roleplay on anyone else. Laissez-faire is a wonderful political ideology that we largely follow in that regard. But it does really challenge.

People don't get bullied for no reason. I refuse to believe any Human can inherently be so evil that they will just randomly target a random individual and start causing shit for the sake of it. Instead of jumping the whole "I'm being bullied!" train. Spend a hard time thinking why you're being sidelined or rejected. Did you disappoint them after making promises? Does your roleplay simply not appeal to them? Don't they like how you disrespect something they like? Do they dislike how you constantly try to seize the attention in any group you're in? Don't they like how you always require the world from them, but don't give anything back yourself? Are you just a drama queen? Did someone else spend a lot of effort to please you and you just brush it off? Do you take them for granted? It's always necessary to introspect. Reflect. Babayonce recently linked me to this video, and I think it carries an important message, and particularly focus on the very last sentence of the video:
I'm going to toss up one final subject before making a conclusion.

I think the best way to reply to this isn't that you've become estranged because you've shifted in server preference, but particularly because your server preference has shifted to /that/ server. I don't think I need to cite any reasons why I used "that" in this example. But that's just conjunction on my side. I have no clue if anyone actually alienates you, just taking a random stab at a possibility. We've never actually communicated or interacted much personally. On the note of server preference though, I frequently swap server. I don't play for very long, but let's for the sake of remaining transparent I'll call them all by name because I often specifically decide to play on another server to pick up new ideas for Massive or learn what mistakes not to repeat. I played on Asmalur for a while with some lore people. It was a wonderful learning experience about what /not/ to do in terms of player rights, server white-listing and plugin support. Throughout our experience there we were upset because the players got upset at us for destabilizing the status quo of the roleplay world. (admittedly, we wanted to conquer the known world, but you can blame @Shuikenai for that). It was still fun to some degree though. The next server I went on was Uthrandir. I had less than a favorable experience there. Obviously when you join a smaller server, you get really welcoming messages, but that was about it really. Nobody made an effort to include me, educate me or be helpful in any way, which is a stark contrast to people like @Suzzie who are always ready to jump in OOCly to educate a new player on Massive, even when she isn't roleplaying at all. Then I went to Aetherys Ascended. That server is down now. I think. Some big drama spiel about the server owners ripping off thousands of dollars from the player base and then just ****ing off. I could never really get into roleplay there because death perms didn't exist and you could just kill anyone nilly willy in pvp. And then finally I've gone around Lord of the Craft as well. My experience on that server was really short because a staff member immediately came down on me asking for a "private conversation" because he had "heard things about me". I was like "Yeah **** that" and only came back once after that to check out their new builds.

The point is, elitism/cliquism/veteranism isn't unique to MassiveCraft. It happens literally everywhere, and I am in fact of the opinion it happens less on Massive than everywhere else because MassiveCraft is a white list free server and still successful in terms of roleplay (god knows many other server owners hate us for it). Note this is no way a claim to say "Ohlol, everything is fine here, there is no room for improvement". There is ALWAYS room for improvement. But I feel some people replying here are acting like MassiveCraft is about to descend into civil war because of some sort of toxic hold that has suddenly and magically grasped the community. In this case I'm going to be adding water to the vinegar /and/ wine by simply saying that there is always room for improvement, but nobody should act like the world is about to end, because it really isn't /that/ bad. Obviously when you compare it a server that runs 20 people that is largely founded on a tight knit group of friends, it's worse. But really. Consider the server you currently play on. Fast forward 3 years into the future, assume the server starts running for commercial success and you have on average 80-100 players on prime time. Do you really think it's still going to be the same? MassiveCraft started out that way, a server hosted between friends and some acquaintances. Everything was cooperative and friendly. MassiveCraft became what it is now, it grew, became more competitive and with competitive strangers comes salt. It almost argues in favor of just capping your server to 20 players and keeping it that way forever, but then MassiveCraft is ran different and couldn't comply to that.

So. On a concluding note (note this is an open appeal, not aimed at anyone in specific):
  • Wonderful post, well written, well explained, supportable opinions.
  • When reviewing these opinions (mine/op/posters) please keep perspective in count, and don't automatically assume all opinions are true. Remain skeptical. Require information and evidence. Then reflect again.
  • Do not fall into the victim complex. Being criticized for behaving like an asshole or in a way people don't like is not bullying. Take a hard look at yourself, realize your flaws and then understand why you may have been alienated or what you consider as "bullied".
  • Do not come to this thread professing how this server "needs to change", when you yourself have never given any inclination to change your deemed undesirable behavior/traits.
  • Do not shove all responsibility onto others.
If anything is to be taken from my wall text of death, it is this: Responsibility is something that is equally shared by all. Staff members have a responsibility to support a better atmosphere by punishing elitism. Players have a responsibility to support a better atmosphere by setting boundaries, being clear and supportive. Staff members have a responsibility to be nicer to players. Players have a responsibility to assist staff members in being nicer to players by being more understanding, treating them less like the enemy and having some faith.

If you have a problem with someone or a group of people FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TALK TO THEM. If you are afraid of them, ask someone close to them to do the talking for you. If you don't trust either to be decent Human beings in the conversation, you're already disrespecting them and kicking yourself in the shins to sabotage your own means to having a better experience.

If you come to this thread as an (ex-)player just to tell me/us how much is wrong about this server and how we need to change because you were the victim, then you honestly have something to think about in my opinion.
I think this is an appropriate guide for anyone entering High School.
 
All I ask is that we give this a try. Be kind. Keep in mind that sometimes there's more to the surface of a person. I'll say it again: we're all in this together.

Alright, unsure if it could be misunderstood that way, what I wrote and detailed wasn't a preferred situation of any sort, merely what I observed, the reality.

While the player base is predominantly adolescent and is rooted in high-school behavior, I like to think that the average age of MassiveCraft moderators is above that level, and, if not, their maturity should transcend their peers simply because they're considered trustworthy enough to join the ranks of staff. My greatest issue is that some of those that are looked up to, such as veteran roleplayers or those with blue-marked names, tend to forget that they're the cream of the crop-- that they're role-models and should lead by example.

From personal experience, staff are seldom involved in everyday situations. Or in RP at least. It's extremely rare that staff interference is asked for, and it usually resolves the situation. The problem, most of the time, comes when the situation is purely between two players without a mediator. Not many players seek staff intervention, which can worsen the situation. For what us blueberries do, that I'm unsure of. I'm trying to be as open as possible, even with a pesky noble character that I play most of the time. I reckon most of the berries are like that.

Patience is, indeed, a virtue, and it is increasingly scarce this day and age; even moreso online; but that's not a proper excuse to just sweep that issue under the rug. What I'm requesting through this thread is that we all exhibit a calmer composure. Be kind. Pay it forward; try not to expect something in return.

It's neither an excuse, nor a preferred status quo. Merely an empirical observation. Veterans can be open, but you can't expect them to be model community members 24/7. Interesting you mentioned expecting something in return. I'll make a take on that later.

We've all either been through high-school, are currently enduring it, or will be within the next year or so. This is a place to /escape/ that mundane routine, to /escape/ the negativity, to /escape/ our problems through interacting with one another in an entirely different world here at Massive. I'll reiterate my point: MineCraft is a game.

The high-school part I referenced doesn't mean people handle massive as just another room in their school. It merely refers to psychological behaviour patterns evident, mostly subconscious. Peer pressure, jenteloven, herd behaviour, etc. Most of the patterns that are taught to teachers during their training, along with the ways to handle or tackle them.

Minecraft is a game. Yet if you seek to resolve problems that arise within the game, you have to look for the roots and sources. And the roots and sources for player interaction and behaviour are found in psychology.

Yes, this is often times difficult; however, once conversing with this player in question, most would find it blatantly obvious whether or not it's an attempt at trolling or a genuinely lost player that had just joined. A quick /seen command could certainly remedy that, which can sometimes provide you with an immediate answer.

The point I tried to make is a bit different. I wasn't referring to trolls, more like to any roleplay situation. Taken that you are roleplaying with any group, be it friends or neutral bystanders, you seek to continue it. If a new player arrives, any attention diverted towards them dirupts the flow of roleplay as it was. It slows down due to OOC messages, or is even driven to OOC conversation, someone becomes unresponsive due to private messaging the new one. I'm not stating it's terrible to help new roleplayers, I'm just stating that for many, keeping up their own roleplay is more important than involving another player.

I have mathematical proof for this.

The goal of RP is to have fun. Therefore, the goal of RP is to maximise F, which is the aggregate fun of those taking part.

F = f1 + f2 + f3 + ... + fn, where f1, f2, and so on are the individual fun factors of each player involved in a scene.

Substituting an equation to dismiss the (...) gets us:

F = n*fm, where fm is the average fun factor of all players involved.

Now let's create an equation. On one side this formula with k factor involved, on the other side one more player involved. This will give us the aggregate fun increase required in percentile that equates to the amount of fun gained from involving one more player.

k*n*fm = (n+1)fm

Re-arrange it to:

k = 1 + 1/n

I've made another equation back in the days that involves a limited pool of attention distributed per player and an organiser / director for the scene. Trust me on this part, the end result of re-arranging was:

k = (n + 2 + 2/n + 1/fm)/(n + 1), where fm can be disregarded, leading to k = (n + 2 + 2/n)/(n+1), almost the same shape as the previous curve.

Inspecting this, you'll see that most of the time, involving a new player that requires guidence will cause a decrease in the mean fun due to slowed-down or disrupted RP process, yet it increases the aggregate fun by adding another player. Math it out for each situation, and see what comes out of it. Technically, the more the players the less it's worth mathematically for them to involve more, which is my mathematical proof for the creation of roleplay cliques.

This /isn't/ the ideal situation, I know. This is the human situation though. I'm an economist, I explain stuff with fancy math, the solution is found by more idealistic people.

It's fairly simple to merely ask OOC if the player is certain they want to stick with their response. If they wish for their character to be well versed in a subject that they, as a player, know little about, perhaps suggest a different option, or even link them to some reading material on the subject for future use. While this can get tedious, due to the frequency of these sort of exchanges, I feel that there are plenty of veterans/staff out there that can dilute said duty so that it doesn't all lie on one or two individuals' shoulders. We can operate as a team.

Refer to the previous part about disruption.

I'm just not satisfied with this sort of answer.

It's a situation to resolve or improve, not to be satisfied with. I agree.

I have the tendency to believe that a good portion of us are actually outcasts in the society that we interact with on a daily basis-- this is the case for myself, so I suppose I'll chalk this up as self-experience-- therefore, in a way, some of us are bound by this similarity. Additionally, we all obviously have a love for MineCraft, roleplay, and medieval themes. If this isn't enough to help us shatter the barrier presented forth because we're all essentially strangers to begin with, then perhaps I've held too much faith in humanity. Again, I'm an optimist and I trust my gut instincts.

And I'm a terrible realist, sorry :(

As a staff-member, a great chunk of the population look up to you for guidance, interactive roleplay, and acceptance. While not all moderators are required to step out of their own comfort zone in order to include others, I would assume that it's an underlying responsibility that is commonly expected of you and your colleagues.

There's a degree to which one can step out of the comfort zone. If you refer to the previous equation I wrote, one could in fact gulp down a decrease in aggregate fun for the sole purpose of increasing the individual fun of one person. Could, but nobody will, truly. We have cliques, because people seek to increase their own individual fun received, or the aggregate fun received of their close friends and themselves.

In terms of roleplay, there's a degree to which one can instigate and do stuff without looking too much silly. I'm trying to dance on the border with my character, but already got some backlash and saltiness for it. It's a terrible weight to balance, trust me. In a sense, you'd force a set amount of players to abandon their strict characters in favour of inviting others to the play. While in small this is all great and fine (or so do I think), there's a point behind which this is purely enforcing demands on the players you want to 'change'.

EG. There's always this thing about approaching nobility in-game, I know about it. While there's an IC limit to where characters can randomly approach nobles, there's also a limit on how nobles can randomly approach tavern patrons and spark conversations. Two-sided, as always. Perhaps the one thing that is ought to change is the external high-horse perception of certain characters, players or cliques that make them seem unapproachable to most players. That's something I've been trying to alter or work on.

If you, as a blue-name, aren't readily eager to reach out, selflessly extending a hand to those less prominent than you and your friends, then what of the remaining population of the server? Again, I think that the most effective way to lead is by example; this confession, while I don't wish to attack you specifically, is one of the reasons as to why I felt the need to post my thoughts. I'm concerned that those with power, be it small or great, may have forgotten the reason we all log in: to play.

Again, that's an expectation from one side towards the other. Remember that those 'with power' seek to log in to play as well, and for many this may mean pleasantries RP in cliques. Yet again, there's a degree to which you can expect them to break their comfort zone and reach out, but you can't and shouldn't expect wonders. We're humans, all too humans.

This is a very valid point. Interaction isn't a one-sided deal; however, we are all new at some point. Yes, it does a person well to read up on the lore and the rules before joining-- in fact, I believe that's one of the stipulations mentioned at the beginning of your first log in [from what I can remember]-- but, there is a great deal to read and some items could be easily overlooked if in a hurry to leap into roleplay. Us veteran players should be here to fill in the gaps, not ridicule or judge those that aren't as well-versed as a college professor.

I never see people judged for not knowing the lore word-by-word. Most open judgments and insults are passed on to people who clearly haven't visited the wiki. Is this fine? No. Are they right in a sense? Perhaps. There's merit in what they say, and I wholeheartedly support almost any method to drive new players towards the wiki to learn and study.

Now, if the player in question is a 'troll', then that can easily be dealt with through creating a ticket, where staff can take matters into their own hands-- which are trusted, responsible hands-- and administer either a warning or a punishment fitting for the transgression.

Sometimes you can't differentiate between a troll and a very misguided RP-er. Refer to my example with the elf. I'm pretty sure he tried to genuinely RP, but 90% the community would deem him a troll.

In-character.
OOC arguments shouldn't escalate to severe hostilities, but if they do, it is important to be the bigger person and walk away. Allow the flames to smolder, the dust to settle. What I've noticed is that it's fairly common for one party to try and one-up the opposing group or individual. What good does that do? The victor's pride is left intact? They've managed to word-slap a twelve year old? Congratulations.

Problems arise. It /is/ in human nature to compete, but perhaps it's better to live out these fantasies through roleplay rather than volley back and forth OOC? It wastes time and takes away from the experience.

As said, reality and not the ideal. Sadly, this happens a lot and I think is probably the bane of most online gaming communities. It's worse for COD, perhaps less apparent in PvE World of Warcraft. I can't comment on this, because it seems like we agree on the problem and I don't know of any true solution apart from individual thrive for less OOC confrontations.

While 'true hatred' is an extreme form of distaste, there is certainly bad blood between specific players or groups. Cliques are evident in the Massive infrastructure and this isn't something that can just be done away with; however, there are grey areas between these conglomerates of players. We can step out of our comfort zone just a bit in order to expand our roleplay experience and reach out to people we wouldn't normally converse with. This is a positive for both parties involved, and may even close the gap between those that are hellbent on feuding with a particular, isolated crowd.

Baby steps, all taken by everyone, tends to dilute the entirety of the problem into something more manageable.

They are being taken as we speak, and I can testify to you that the last few months have proven rather successful in breaking these walls. There's a lot of work still to do, but a positive attitude helps when it comes to this. One thing for sure, if you wait in your comfort zone for someone to approach you from the grey belt, it won't happen. Everyone has to leave theirs.

Excuses can be made, but I will say that a good handful of my closest friends have been hurt by individuals that play quite actively here on Massive. This post isn't for myself. I'm not upset about the treatment I've been given. I'm enraged that so many of my friends come to me with complaints regarding bullying and isolation. This shouldn't be a common occurrence. We're better than that. We're more intelligent than that.

Refer to the equation and mathematical proof. We are subconsciously intelligent enough to have our own drives and act on them. It's not about intelligence, it's about seeing a greater picture.

Now, on to the expectations. You mentioned that veterans shouldn't expect something in return. That's not how this world works. That's not how anything works. Thermodynamics and economics, accounting ... all built on causes and effects, as well as counter-effects (or reactions). It's extremely naíve to think any human would do something out of good will. Charity is done for self-glorification and to build a better picture, true charity is as rare as pink hares. Subconscious, your expectations can be. And I'll be blunt and state what I think the community's expectations are: to have a new member. That's it, nothing special.

It isn't some honour, some kindness or individual quest that drives one to help a new player or such, but the hopes of gaining another member for the community and thus increasing the overall fun of the scene for themselves as well. And that's where the judgement part re-surfaces, most new players are being judged based on whether the others 'want them' or 'don't want them' in their cliques. Some would like them in the community but not their own layer, some would keep them out of anything.

Main thing is, attention is an investment (bluntly) to gain a member. And just like any other investments, it's all about display when it comes to 'funders' of attention. Once again, you can't expect the community to drag you in. The easiest way to be dragged in is to convince the community that they should /want/ you to be dragged in. Is that hard? I don't think so. I've seen numerous new players who were dragged in within the span of a few months, and in the sense I'm one myself as my activity on the server started less than 9 months ago.

Anecdote part:
I joined massive, created a character, entered the tavern and met refusal and denial, mostly. There were people I could RP with, but I was terribly insecure and my character was a stereotypical special snowflake that made things even harder. I even had that one ombre-robe wizard girl skin, heh.

I left Regalian RP and joined a faction, learned the ropes of RP there, learned what lore was, had my foundations. Returned to Regalia two months later, still rather noob when it came to lore (I still am in many topics). Yet with that small training session outside Regalia, I turned into something far more promising for the community and they invested in me by approaching me for RP, teaching me, telling me how to do stuff. And I'm glad for that. And looking back, I did nothing with my first character to earn this investment, other than standing by and expecting magic to happen.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to be a prick, no. I'm just trying to instill realistic expectations towards the 'veteran' roleplayers you mentioned. When you think a character or clique is unapproachable, consider how more unapproachable they would be if their players held to their true characters. And if that's not working out, try mapping out the ways to approach them. That's for what one can do, from one side. For the other side ... patience. Yes.
 
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I would highly dissuade passive aggression. If you agree that a community needs to be better to each other, the first step is being straightforward. Passive aggressive things like this only breed uncertainty and only ask for bitterness in return. Be straightforward with us.

This isn't helping, and I'm a bit pained and disappointed to see this kind of thread being turned into a place to troll.
 
People don't get bullied for no reason. I refuse to believe any Human can inherently be so evil that they will just randomly target a random individual and start causing shit for the sake of it. Instead of jumping the whole "I'm being bullied!" train. Spend a hard time thinking why you're being sidelined or rejected.

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Hello MassiveCraft!

I'd like to first start off by saying hi and apologize for my inactivity in the last couple of months. I'm not going to make excuses or try to justify my absence, but let's just say that I've been doing a great deal of thinking.

Perhaps I should also begin by addressing the environment of this server recently, that it isn't exactly what it used to be-- or so I've noticed through personal experience. I won't claim that it's been entirely negative as of late, mostly because I typically try to be an optimistic person in general, but there have been some instances that have most certainly disheartened me, even going so far as to nudging me closer to lose faith in specific people or groups.

While this is to be expected in a large population that's based on the internet, that people change under different circumstances and surroundings, I only wish that the more mature folk, the older players, veterans, remember: this is a game, a game that was designed for a younger demographic. Minecraft is a hobby. It is a pastime, something that is used for enjoyment and recreation. It is meant to be /fun/.

I'm aware that there are a list of regulations/guidelines for the server, which are all warranted and should be followed. Additionally, there are set punishments that are required to be carried out when these rules are violated. Without rules, there is chaos. Massive is contained in an orderly manner, something that isn't easily achieved without proper moderation. Staff-ranked individuals do a commendable job in maintaining the peace, preventing mayhem, and distributing discipline to those that have earned it; however, sometimes the fashion in which they, or other long-time players, go about handling unfavorable incidents or misbehaving folk can be a little less praiseworthy.

I think it's rather easy to forget that most of the player-base here is of a younger age, an age that is easily impressionable and molded in a variety of ways. Patience is a requirement when communicating with children or adolescents, and even when dealing with humans in general. We're a prideful species, and while we're not 'insects', I feel that the expression, "you attract more flies with honey than vinegar," applies to this situation just the same. New and younger roleplayers are still important to the server.

All of them add to the environment, creating further opportunities for in-character interactions, and some even have plenty to offer Massive and its advancement. When correcting new people in-game, I didn't often see patience exhibited by the more veteran players, rather an almost superior tone was taken with the transgressor, as if the person in question wasn't worth their effort. Often times, vets may even reply OOC with, "just ignore them", which does essentially nothing to help the newbie grow and most likely only succeeds in insulting him/her. Why remain on a server that shuns you?

Perhaps some veteran players have forgotten that who they're dealing with are human beings, beings that we share this Earth with. Beings that are just like you and me. Beings that feel, can be vulnerable, feel helpless or bullied. Speaking down to them in a harsh manner can cause them to feel insignificant or even hurt while they're playing a game online-- a place where they escape to in order to become someone /else/ that is free, happy or strong. This isn't going to do anything for their confidence, and sometimes, that confidence is already so low that this sort of treatment threatens to compromise their mental or emotional stability.

Not all of you are bad. In fact, a considerable portion of you are really, really great people. I used to be very good friends with a handful of well-known players, but since my inactivity and shift in server preference, I've felt an overwhelming sensation of estrangement. Alienation. It's almost as if I've got a plague that these people in question don't wish to catch, and if /I'm/ enduring this sort of petty treatment-- me, a person that I'd like to believe is pleasant toward most of those that I meet until you give me reason not to be-- who's to say not more of you are being exposed to much worse conduct and negative behavior such as derogatory comments and unwholesome opinions, regardless of whether it's to the face or behind the back.

In conclusion, I beseech those that read this to try and take on a more positive attitude. To better themselves for the benefit of this community. We're all in this together, so why not make friends instead of enemies?

tl;dr :
I think we can all be nicer to one another. You have the capability and I believe in you.

That's all I have to offer at the moment. If you're curious about any of the points I've made, feel free to comment below. Thank you so much for getting this far, even if you've only managed to click on the link that brought you here. You're more than welcome to contact me on Skype if you feel trapped or bullied-- nightmayer91's the name. I'm not super great at advice, but sometimes it helps to have a shoulder to lean on.

There are many of us who are not exactly, capable of writing such a feat, and don't have much of a say in things, as... err, rude? As it sounds. I just wish to thank you for putting this out there.

Maybe, some sort of tutorial for the newbies would be good? One where they don't click on a link? I know when I was browsing for servers, and when I got on one, I sure as heck didn't want to click on some link to some forum thread where I have to create a account just to access it. Y'know what I mean?


And no, i'm not going to pull a lie-job. I do feel as if I am shunned, or pushed away by people rather often on Massive, be it in RP or in factions. I understand we are a mature community, but showing respect to players who don't create giant forum posts or factions should be something done aswell. If, you catch my gist.

Then again who knows. Maybe i'm just some sensitive kid. Honestly, i'm just here to make friends, and have fun, as cheesy as that sounds, not to act out some drama scene. Well, you know what I mean, it'll happen in RP, but it really shouldn't be happening OOC.
 
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@Medvekoma I'll reply to yours in a bit, I didn't realize you posted something in addition to Marty.

@MonMarty
I admit wholeheartedly that I bear a striking resemblance to a doormat in terms of what it's used for; I openly allow others to walk over me. This is something that I actively permit, something I do nothing to change, as it's a large part of who I am. I've taken zero offense to you calling me out on that matter, in fact, I smiled at your claim out of pride, oddly enough. I like to think that it's better that I'm the one getting trampled to bits rather than someone that isn't nearly as strong as me when it comes to tolerating negativity. I am by no means calling myself a hero, masochistic, or impervious to insult. I'm merely able to take a verbal lashing and remain intact.

I am also heavily guilty of allotting others to do as they please. The particular instance that you brought up in your post regarding relaying of information was mostly caused by miscommunication. The player in question was interested in exploring the reactions of others in response to his own character's death and discussed this with yours truly, to which I expressed the same interest in. I didn't particularly mind that he informed his friends of the plan, omitting the bit about it being a staged event rather than something that was going to actually take place; however, I didn't imagine that others would be so upset or excited as to bring it to yours or other staff members' attentions. Personally, I assumed that since I was relatively inactive, that not many folks would care as to whether or not my character perished at this point. Regardless, I should have dealt with it outright, rather than what I did: discuss my regrets or discomforts with just about everyone other than the person that should've been addressed.

That being said, I'd like to further explore this idea of avoiding confrontation. It is so terribly easy to speak of someone in a poor light behind the safety of closed doors, likely because there is little to no consequence that the offender has to face, at least not immediately. Betraying someone's trust is fairly common, and even more so over the internet, as with the aid of private messaging, i.e., Skype, TeamSpeak, and texting back and forth, makes it arguably effortless to host a negative conversation about a certain person or group without them being present.

Despite the private nature of these messaging avenues, chats aren't entirely watertight. Information bleeds-- it flows out of others, gets passed on to more, and eventually, it trickles back to the person that was originally attacked by someone that believed that they were among friends. This offense, where an individual is emotionally marred, is typically met with meager repercussion, as it is so simple to break off a friendship formed over such a great distance that the wrongdoer will probably never have to interact with this person face-to-face. We /are/ creatures of habit, and if something works out in our favor, why on Earth should we cease taking part in that sort of behavior? If the negative consequences are not enough to deter us from acting in a certain way, why stop?

I'm fully aware that you know how these sort of situations, the ones where discussing someone behind their back, unfold. You've witnessed them many-a-time, myself being one of those that had spoken ill of you behind your back; however, I'll be the first to admit that it was wrong of me to do so and I've been taking steps to prevent instances like that from recurring. The point of my post, in general, was to inspire others to move on from their past mistakes and try to be a better person by response. I can't ask others to do so without putting forth my own effort in exchange.

We all need to consider taking responsibility. While this is true, the video in your post also makes a valid case regarding accountability. If we want to put an end to toxicity, or at least diminish it to some degree, we're required to reach out to one another. Of course. I am fully on board, in fact, this thread was a step forward, hoping to raise my confidence enough to address the issues that have been weighing on my mind so that I may soon speak with those personally that have wronged me, my friends, or those that come to me for help.

Now you stated:
But I feel some people replying here are acting like MassiveCraft is about to descend into civil war because of some sort of toxic hold that has suddenly and magically grasped the community. In this case I'm going to be adding water to the vinegar /and/ wine by simply saying that there is always room for improvement, but nobody should act like the world is about to end, because it really isn't /that/ bad.

I am, no no shape or form, claiming that Massive is at the end of its rope, and that no one else really needs to voice that sort of opinion on this thread. I am, on the contrary, concerned about the sense of 'toxicity' that has emerged throughout the course of 3 years that I've been playing here. I consider myself to be a veteran roleplayer, despite taking a break-- the 5 or 6 months that I've been inactive shouldn't negate or discredit my past experiences prior to the hiatus. I've been exposed to quite a bit since joining this server, most good, some bad, so I feel it unfair of you to say:
I'm going to toss up the idea that you're only exposed to a small quantity of players, roleplay very limited times, not even in prime time, don't participate in events, or generally keep your scope limited to what you're comfortable with.
I have noted that this oppressive environment, where people have been estranged, shut out, or insulted, be it in their presence or not, hasn't really shifted much in one or two years' time. Most times, it doesn't directly stem from the opinions of staff members, but I won't exclude some of them from responsibility. A choice few of individuals have been forced away due to altercations with specific groups, sometimes even so far that they've felt the need to avoid MassiveCraft altogether. I find this disheartening, as while there are plenty of people on the server that are capable of unkind behavior, it is most gripping and most significantly impactful when someone that you look up to knocks the wind out of you and shoves you into the dirt.

On a positive note, it is very commendable that you've realized your dream, bringing your ideas and creations to life in a fully immersive world. That's something not many can say for themselves. You've put so many hours, days, months, and years into something that you're passionate about, therefore, this isn't a hobby to you in any fashion. It's your livelihood and essentially, your own piece of you-- like a child, almost. Because it is so rare that anyone can claim that they've turned something they love into a job, it is highly unlikely that MassiveCraft is anything more than a pastime for the average player. It's a game for these folk, despite them sometimes obsessing so much that they live, breathe, eat roleplay [of which, I'm entirely guilty of myself]. Regalia isn't a workplace, nor should it be treated as such. There are, of course, behind the scenes work performed by you and other colleagues, but those taking part in Regalian everyday life, they're not clocking in. They're not restricted by an agenda. They're there to play.

There are plenty of players to interact with, as you did bring up the fact that Massive is not whitelisted. Now, because of this admission, wouldn't you assume that MassiveCraft is full of a highly diverse player base, therefore prone to players involved to branch off into groups or cliques? Whitelisting a server may even reduce the chance of division, as those in charge of admitting new players could potentially weed out people that aren't fit to interact with those already permitted. I'm not going to claim that either is the best way to handle this situation, or that forming segregated roleplaying parties is an acceptable thing to do. By contrast, I feel that cliques can prevent a great deal of roleplay progression and exclude those that yearn for acceptance-- whitelisting a server may even be an even more extreme measure of this example.

My point, in a nutshell, as I've reiterated so many times before on my replies, is that I would /love/ for bullying to stop. I wish people could treat others as they themselves would like to be treated. If only everyone could be welcomed, that they could fit in and be given respect. I long for entertainment to be something that can stand on its own, without the driving force of drama and petty squabbles.

I'll stop commenting here now, as I think most of the points have been addressed enough for others to know my stance on the matter. There's not much more for me to say, but if anyone that's already said their peace would like for me to respond to them, I'll be happy to. You're also more than welcome to pm me.
 
Despite what positive intentions and motives that exist in these posts, I am beginning to feel that there's a sort of undermining being done with this snarky, passive-aggressive posts and images that are being responded to. I'm also beginning to form the impression of a tight association between the OP and those I'm recognizing as the perpetrators of the err I'm witnessing. While I fervently understand there's such good will embedded in this dialogue set up thus, I can certainly imagine there's a perspective that this is becoming something of a satirical pancake that flips back and forth.
 
I briefly skimmed through all of this, so I'm not fully in the loop. I'll just leave this here for ya'll to watch though before this thread gets closed up.
 
I really love this post and you did a fantastic job explaining yourself thoroughly and giving all your points on the matter. Alright so now I'm not saying that I disagree with your opinion or anything, but as I see it, there isn't really any way to stop what is said to be Cyberbullying, after all it is the internet, and people can be extremely toxic. Also I am not saying that your points are wrong, because I agree with everything you have said, but it is sad to see people being mistreated and bullied over a video game, or over anything really, which shouldn't happen at all. All I can really think of is to make punishment maybe more harsh towards these "bullies" or "toxic" players who are ruining the massive experience that we want or have. (I'm sorry if you find this offensive in any way.)
 
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People don't get bullied for no reason. I refuse to believe any Human can inherently be so evil that they will just randomly target a random individual and start causing shit for the sake of it. Instead of jumping the whole "I'm being bullied!" train. Spend a hard time thinking why you're being sidelined or rejected.

Now I'm no expert at this, but to my general understanding and logic, bullies chose their victims not because they are doing something wrong that needs to be fixed, but because they appear to be weaker, and less capable of defending themselves. And of course there is the factor that most human beings wouldn't just do this for the sake of bullying, but because some situation is causing them to feel insecure and act like this.

Also, there's the fact that most of us, not all, on here are here because society does want us, causing us to feel insecure. That could also mean that a lot of us want to feel like we're worth something, and pushing each other down, and pointing out their errors to make us feel better and to impress our peers seems logical. It's all cause and effect, not the victims problem, but the bully's.

Again, I'm no expert, I could be entirely wrong, but to me this seems to make sense.
 
Despite what positive intentions and motives that exist in these posts, I am beginning to feel that there's a sort of undermining being done with this snarky, passive-aggressive posts and images that are being responded to. I'm also beginning to form the impression of a tight association between the OP and those I'm recognizing as the perpetrators of the err I'm witnessing. While I fervently understand there's such good will embedded in this dialogue set up thus, I can certainly imagine there's a perspective that this is becoming something of a satirical pancake that flips back and forth.
I posted this thread to address a problem that really bothered me. Is it so wrong that others agree with my opinion, whether or not it's right or wrong?
 
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