Though they couldn't get the highest ranks, I think it would be fair to let the little kiddies have some sort of respect and different task to do than just RP, say words they cant irl, kill noobs, ect. ect. sure they couldn't have the highest ranking, or "Admin" but I still think it would be fair to let some kids be mods, like I think with a little more practice I could be a Lore, or World staff, I don't know, just a thought, just wanted to get it out into space
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Why Cant Kids Be Staff
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Joshy54100
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I think the only staff position a person under 16 could fulfill reasonably well is maybe World staff, but overall the age requirement is good, since (in general terms) the older you are, the more mature/responsible you are. It's just to help the staff easily whittle down a group to those who would usually be better staff.
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It still depends on the individual, it's really more about how well you know someone. Some younger people I know can be really mature and responsible yet choose not to take that burden, or some adults that are just as immature and carefree as the kids they are responsible for.
Joshy54100
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That would be the ideal way, but the time it would take and the uncertainty of the person's true intentions would be hard to discern (This is the internet, no one really 'knows' anyone as well as they think they do).
I think that they're fine the way they're doing it. I believe it is possible for 'apprentices' (@AurelienBela. ) to be around and do small work for Staff and be recognized among the staff as such. I'm not sure if Massive runs off of a -1 rule (if you are 15 and you are capable, there's a spot to fill and you're mature then you get it) or not but either way, if a person is eligible for staff then I have no doubt if they talked to some staff members they are likely to be taken on as an apprentice (should they carry out the process of applying correctly of course.
If Massive doesn't already then I think the only change that could be made would be the use of the -1 year rule but naturally they would need to be selective even then
If Massive doesn't already then I think the only change that could be made would be the use of the -1 year rule but naturally they would need to be selective even then
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Normally, when you classify a staff member on some server as abusive, it's pretty safe to say that it's some 10 year old who got a staff rank for some unfathomable reason. Sure, there are staff members who are fairly old who abuse their powers, but the majority of these people are kids. Not only that, but kids are less mature, and less likely to make good decisions and whatnot. There are some 10/13 year olds who can be very responsible and mature, but this number tends to be fairly low, and even if they are mature, chances are a mature 17 year old would still be more mature than a mature 11 year old. I know I would way rather have staff members that are 15+, rather than 10/13 year olds.
Hence the idea of implementing the -1 year rule
Lets say that children at the age of 8-16 still undergo brain developments, neurons in the brain start growing out a massive amount of neurons eventually forming a huge branch. at a elderly age of lets say 18-20 the neurons are trimmed down due to unnecessary neurons that won't be used. At a younger age the child will have a surge of signals going through those neurons and will end up emotionally unstable. Therefore unable to deal with the stress as well as hold huge grudges on people and perhaps it may lead to abusive actions. From awhile of observing servers the ones owned by children that are at a age of 12-16 normally intend to fail after 2-4 months of running the server, elderly people intend to keep it up for a longer period of time.
My conclusion would be to leave all the work to the elderly staff members, Ideas of younger people becoming staff members should not be permitted.
My conclusion would be to leave all the work to the elderly staff members, Ideas of younger people becoming staff members should not be permitted.
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As Togal said, the prefrontal cortex of the brain which aids in decision making tasks is just not developed enough. This makes kids prone to faulty decision making and to be at risk for succumbing to impulses. Staff of even rank 1 are supposed to be mature players who can make good and unbiased decisions, without letting their emotions judge for them; they also need to have a healthy understanding and respect for the server's rules. We've seen players under age 16 show an inability to completely function in all of these areas, even if they are 'mature' for their age- as quite frankly speaking, even if they behave maturely, their brain still needs to undergo that vital development to aid in their decision making processes. This is why we never consider staff members that are under the age of 16.
As much as I would like for this to happen (lowering the staff requirement age), I still see the reasoning behind it.
For example; I am 13, turning 14, and I would like to be a Roleplay staff member. Of course, this obviously can't happen. I realise that people my age or younger (maybe even older) can be immature sometimes, no matter how 'mature' they think or say they are.
Also; I would find that if they did lower the age, I would not like it lower than 13. I can almost picture the moderators that are 10, or even less, messing up somehow.
I have to say that although I would like it, I'm going to have to disagree.
For example; I am 13, turning 14, and I would like to be a Roleplay staff member. Of course, this obviously can't happen. I realise that people my age or younger (maybe even older) can be immature sometimes, no matter how 'mature' they think or say they are.
Also; I would find that if they did lower the age, I would not like it lower than 13. I can almost picture the moderators that are 10, or even less, messing up somehow.
I have to say that although I would like it, I'm going to have to disagree.
Try not to see it as a discrimation feature. It's simply due to maturity.
MassiveCraft is rather ran like a business, and much like real life, you wouldn't hire a 14 year old for a job. This isn't to say they are any less of a person than 16 year old, but there's a huge gap in intelligence, how you deal with circumstances, and how you communicate yourself.
The fact is, majority of a time, "kids" haven't yet developed the ability that allows them to "lead" which is the responsibility of a staff member.
There's a lot of things that come into play, and the staff just can't afford to bring kids into their ranks, just because those children would like the opportunity.
I don't mean to sound rude to anyone who has made a post about maturity or intelligence but please stop. The problem, as highlighted by @Omnomivore is the decision making process. I'll use myself as an example, I'm 14, turning 15 this year and in the Australian education system I'm in Grade 10. I'm intelligent, countless times I've corrected adults left and right, put teachers to shame (Sorry if this sounds cocky but I am being honest) and I could stand in front of my class and teach half of my subject's lessons. I'm a programmer, the languages I know are HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Java and I'm learning PHP. Earlier this year I had the opportunity to do Website Development on a university level but unfortunately, there's no funding for the course that would have let me do that as it's supposed to be hard for workers that have finished school. I'm quite mature for my age, many have said it, but I like to have fun every now and then (an example could be my 'love' for Neon_57). But when it comes to making decisions I'm hopeless.
I freak out if the decision is too small, I can't pick the right colour, I'm not sure if that build works right, should I make the faction or not? I hope you see my point. It doesn't matter how smart I am nor how mature I am, I must be honest and say that I can't confidently stand up and make a decision that would affect other players or MassiveCraft as a whole. Granted, I can make quite a few decisions here and there and due to my maturity there are somethings I can look at with an even light but more often than not, if I'm mad at you but you're nice as I go to begin my rant, I'll soften up and give you a second chance. An example could be earlier today, @Unluvable was in the dark room I was building in and I was furious but he was really polite and nice and I couldn't help it, I took him further down and said he could use half of the dark room. It's not all about Maturity or intelligence, obviously we don't want a moderator screaming "u iz using hax brah -perm bands a better PvPer-" but there are more times when they need to make a decision, think on the spot and tell a player the right thing and that relies more on the decision making process than most would realize.
I freak out if the decision is too small, I can't pick the right colour, I'm not sure if that build works right, should I make the faction or not? I hope you see my point. It doesn't matter how smart I am nor how mature I am, I must be honest and say that I can't confidently stand up and make a decision that would affect other players or MassiveCraft as a whole. Granted, I can make quite a few decisions here and there and due to my maturity there are somethings I can look at with an even light but more often than not, if I'm mad at you but you're nice as I go to begin my rant, I'll soften up and give you a second chance. An example could be earlier today, @Unluvable was in the dark room I was building in and I was furious but he was really polite and nice and I couldn't help it, I took him further down and said he could use half of the dark room. It's not all about Maturity or intelligence, obviously we don't want a moderator screaming "u iz using hax brah -perm bands a better PvPer-" but there are more times when they need to make a decision, think on the spot and tell a player the right thing and that relies more on the decision making process than most would realize.
Gwyndo
Scottish Egg
The very fact that instead of allowing us to say "No", you force an insult after it so that in order to vote no, you must also agree with a petty insult.
[[You also spelled Idiot wrong in an uneditable poll, something you should make sure has no errors before putting up. imo]]
That in itself shows the maturity of kids, and (imo) gives a decent reason as to why kids shouldn't be staff.
No offence btw, I'm not exactly mature as all hell myself.
[[However, I don't think I'm not a kid. 15's pretty young.]]
Also, on a more off topic note,
Writing "Its spelled" would be possession, not "it is spelled", which would be "It's".
[[You also spelled Idiot wrong in an uneditable poll, something you should make sure has no errors before putting up. imo]]
That in itself shows the maturity of kids, and (imo) gives a decent reason as to why kids shouldn't be staff.
No offence btw, I'm not exactly mature as all hell myself.
[[However, I don't think I'm not a kid. 15's pretty young.]]
Also, on a more off topic note,
By the way, it's spelled "It's".
Writing "Its spelled" would be possession, not "it is spelled", which would be "It's".
People under the age of 16 (In my experience) do not take criticism very well. And as a result, would be prone to lol banning players for suggesting other methods of moderation. Another reason would be lets say a 14 year old get's the rank of World1, and have been tasked to create a world similar to Kelmoria, but they have to pay high attention to detail when it comes to the mountains. And let's assume that this team member made the world, but it was very rushed and poor quality, the other world staff would obviously not accept it and would give constructive criticism for the young World1 staff to meditate and improve upon. I highly doubt that this young World1 member would take the criticism calmly (I know I wouldn't as a 14 year old) Do you think that the blind rage that this 14 year old with mod powers would effect the server positively? Further so, let's say that this 14 year old is in faction 1, and faction 1 is at war with faction 2. Faction 2 have been accused of using xray mods to find diamonds to aid their war efforts, but there is little to no evidence to support this. Would the 14 year old mod act in an unbiased way and investigate, or would they just right out perm ban them? My guess is the latter.
MassiveCraft choose 16 year olds and over because they are more mature, and much less biased than younger people. Plus, being a mod = more work, and if you're at school and you get a lot of homework, you will need to balance it with your MassiveWork, which could affect your education in a negative way.
MassiveCraft choose 16 year olds and over because they are more mature, and much less biased than younger people. Plus, being a mod = more work, and if you're at school and you get a lot of homework, you will need to balance it with your MassiveWork, which could affect your education in a negative way.
Yet another strike to Maturity, a staff member /must/, without any doubt, be able to handle the working parts of their life in an organized manner. No point in given a staff member a project if 2 months later they come back with poorly done work that doesn't meet specifications because they procrastinated and did not have enough time at the end.
wafflecash
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What if it was something like jr staff (I can only see this working with worldstaff) were they built while a world staff was building near them so their builds could be moderated only getting oped to build in Regalia when its needed?
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@Turtle663
The server has always had it so that anyone in game staff has to be 16 years or older. To put it simple, it is because we are not yet fully mentally matured. However I must agree with you on one thing. We have had younger staff such as @Verityg and @BadassBarbas who were 14 or even younger when they served in the staff. They worked well, and if anything, made us feel a lot more comfortable due to that we did not feel pressured by an older player despite their authority. I think some people may be allowed to moderate the server even when under 16, but under very careful watch.
The server has always had it so that anyone in game staff has to be 16 years or older. To put it simple, it is because we are not yet fully mentally matured. However I must agree with you on one thing. We have had younger staff such as @Verityg and @BadassBarbas who were 14 or even younger when they served in the staff. They worked well, and if anything, made us feel a lot more comfortable due to that we did not feel pressured by an older player despite their authority. I think some people may be allowed to moderate the server even when under 16, but under very careful watch.
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It's hard to find anyone who can take criticism well, and in responses to the people above, there are still adults who can hold grudges, be abusive, etc etc etc.
A bit off-topic but, isn't that what "maturity" is though? Decision-making, work-juggling, responsibility, morality, etc. "Maturity" by itself doesn't mean anything, it's just a process. Being mature simply means growing and being more experienced and able to handle these various aspects.
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The thing was: we weren't capable enough.
We aren't (or me especially) as free as people who have left school and are more associated with certain matters than we once were. My opinion on this is as follows: Young people shouldn't be staff. Their maturity isn't necessarily an issue, so don't pry about how early teens or children can be mature, too. It's more to do with responsibility. Devotion. Being sophisticated. While some may argue they are all of these things, honestly, it's a waste of your breath. The subject has been gone over countless of times. If I was offered a position in staff again, I would decline, because I know I personally wouldn't be able to juggle four characters, school work, free time and the requirements that being staff need.
Precisely.^ Couldn't have said it better myself on the more building-side of Massivecraft RP.
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It depends really, as most of these terms are open to individual interpretation. To me maturity is not some set value to determine how professional or "fair" a person is. To me, maturity is simply how much people learn to behave in public and around other people.
It's the single solid reason why I outright reject any applications that start with "I'm mature for my age" or "I often get told I'm mature". An abstract concept like maturity doesn't speak about a person's true motivations, qualifications etc.
I don't mean to be a prick, but they didn't. There's a reason we decided to lay off the younger ones. They worked very well in their own terms and way, and had a quality to themselves, but could not meet up to the requirements and standard the rest of the staff set.
I was just thinking that World1 or Lore1 could be good for some people, not really Game1, because of yes, maturity levels and stuff, but World1 and Lore1 don't take much maturity at all because for World all you really need to know is how to use World painter, world edit, and be great architect, for Lore, on the other hand, you would need to know how Massivecraft RP works, again, just a thought, I wanted to get it out there
I was just think either Lore1 or World1, maybe Game1, just to try it out, they would only go up to World2 or Lore2 again, I wanted to get the thought out there so maybe some kids could have a chance
Shawn
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I like how this thread didn't burst into flames, with people disagreeing left and right, over some maturity issues. I like.
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I don't think you are quite grasping what I said, so I will try and clarify. Please read this carefully and understand it before responding.
Your brain, Any brain, has a fault in decision making prior to age 16. It does not matter if you are in lore, or world, or game, or if you show talent and promise- we don't accept players under age 16 because their brain isn't developed.
Players, when accepted for staff, become aspirants- no rank staff that are taking in the basics before they are given any extra in game abilities. We don't accept under age 16 due to faulty decision making in kids.
So here is my advice to you:
If you are under age 16 and are interested in staff, great! We can't accept an application from you but that should not stem your interest or enthusiasm.
Start practicing.
See a department you are interested in? Start working on your skills to improve them! You are at an age that learns rapidly. Utilize it! Try getting a mentor, someone that knows some of the skills you need to improve on. Heck, you might even manage to get a staff to mentor you. By the time you are old enough, if you have developed your skills enough and built up a decent rapport with staff, you might show quite the impressive application.
Heard of @BadassBarbas he was 14....
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Barbass was on rp staff, which at the time did not have an age requirement. There were problems with keeping underage rp staff, though, so the age was raised to 16 for them as well.
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Why do people insist on calling me this?! Barbas. Not Barbass.
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While there may be a few good, mature people under the age of 16, the limit is set for a good and just reason. While it is entirely possible that they could be good and effective staff members, there is always the chance that they wouldn't be. Why change a system that already works well in recruiting capable mature staff members?
In certain cases there can be rapid development within younger peoples brain, making them more mature... But then again intelligence does not also prove of how mature a person could be, I have met plenty of intelligent children but yet they lack maturity. There were some research taken that adults are most likely to understand emotional feelings and facial expressions much better than younger people do. Decision making also comes with one of the benefits of the brain development, soon you'll find it more easier to make decisions.
@togal300
That's actually what he said. He wasn't talking about pure intelligence, the frontal lobes generally deal with decision making and suchlike. So while it is possible to be very intelligent at a young age, it is rarely (if ever) possible to be truly mature, because the frontal lobes simply aren't developed enough until after puberty. Forgive me if I've got the details wrong, I'm not a brain surgeon, but that's the general gist of it.
(coming from a 14-year-old, by the way)
That's actually what he said. He wasn't talking about pure intelligence, the frontal lobes generally deal with decision making and suchlike. So while it is possible to be very intelligent at a young age, it is rarely (if ever) possible to be truly mature, because the frontal lobes simply aren't developed enough until after puberty. Forgive me if I've got the details wrong, I'm not a brain surgeon, but that's the general gist of it.
(coming from a 14-year-old, by the way)
TheFinitePeach
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Actually you get dumber as you age... Babies and toddlers are routinely able of completing mentle feats that adults are not able to do, or require much more effort to accomplish. (ie. learning languages)
However I am not saying that people under 16 should be staff...
There is a distinct difference between being able to learn languages and being able to make good well educated decisions.
However I am not saying that people under 16 should be staff...
There is a distinct difference between being able to learn languages and being able to make good well educated decisions.
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@TheFinitePeach
Are you suggesting we only allow babies to be staff?
True, they have a high capability for learning things, but that's knowledge, not decision making. Besides, they still have less knowledge than adults and even kids, because all adults and kids were once babies, and have continue led learning since.
On an off-topic note, dumb means you can't talk. Not that you can't learn, as you suggested.
Are you suggesting we only allow babies to be staff?
True, they have a high capability for learning things, but that's knowledge, not decision making. Besides, they still have less knowledge than adults and even kids, because all adults and kids were once babies, and have continue led learning since.
On an off-topic note, dumb means you can't talk. Not that you can't learn, as you suggested.
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He doesn't mean literally get babies and toddlers to be staff members, he's just saying that when you get older your learning capabilities go downhill a bit. I still don't agree with getting staff members that are under 16, though.
TheFinitePeach
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@Pyromaniacal i'm fairly sure you know what I meant when I said that...
And as I said why change a system that already works?
And as I said why change a system that already works?
TheTerrawr
King of the Silencio Empire
Jesus, I could actually write an essay on why we learn Languages, but because they are young is NOT a reason....... In fact, we don't explicitly know exactly why children do, it could be because it's Innate, or because they simply have that part of the brain storage empty, which would explain why your first language doesn't have to be the same as your parents. But still, the LTM of the brain has unlimited capacity and duration (theoretically) and therefore adults could potentially learn and have the same mental capacity as a new born child,
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A fairly leading theory why their able to learn languages is while most of the grey matter is present during that age many pathway connections inside the grey matter are formed which could allow them to make the connections necessary to learn the language. However as you age your ability to make the same mental pathways decreases...
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