Archived Unarmed - Iron Grip Chance

[BenRekt]

Delete Me

 

[TechPac]

You need to suggest that to the makers of the pluggin I believe. I could be wrong but I dont think the staff have any control over that.

 

[Snakeeeer]

TechPac The staff can actually change that through the config file of the plugin.

 

[Th3_Drunk_Monk]

While I dont know the ins and outs of configuring, I like the idea of it. Even a novice should have the small chance to outdo the master

 

[yendor46]

This would be possible to implement in the mcmmo configuration files.

 

[Waminer]

Warning: Large Wall of Text which should probably be a stand alone thread.

Disarmed itself is an annoying part of combat as seriously, 3 hits with someone with 1000 unarmed and your weapon is effectively gone. It is annoying, useless, and the only reason real hardcore PVPers train it is to get rid of this annoying ability. In my opinion iron grip should be buffed as someone that is 1/10 the skill of another person in hand to hand combat wielding a weapon with skill, should still be able to hold onto that weapon, even if outclassed in pure fist vs fist. Disarming should be useful against those that have under lets say 400 skill and ineffective to the point of near uselessness to anyone above.


"But I've watched Teenage Mutant Turtles at least 2 times and play mortal combat, and those quality sources prove that in real combat a quick punch or poke is twice as good as machine gun, let alone at least 50 times better than a sword."-Every pro-unarmed quasi "historian" ever.

Well I hate to break this to you, but a good sword in real medieval combat outclassed every single weapon in medieval combat (Disclaimer below) especially a bare hand, which if you look at very closely may be the reason we use weapons instead of our bare hands in war. Using your bare hands in a fight in the stone ages was suicide. Let alone the late medieval ages with the advent of bows, crossbows, metal, shields, tactics, large battles, ranks, swords, knifes, organization, horses, logistics, war dogs, ships, catapults, scorpions, trebuchets, cannons, elite units, cannon fodder, arquebuses, pole arms, mercenaries, advanced deception, military alliances, formation, flails, and those small unimportant things.

While I agree that PVP is not at all like medieval combat this wall of text has shown that any attempt to say it is RP friendly is simply false and it takes away from the fun of PVP. The two uses of unarmed skill in my opinion should be.

1. If your faction is poor and resisting much better equip attackers, you can train unarmed to fight them with a damage boost. This is not only leveling playing fields slightly but also is quite similar to a desperate last stand with conscripts using any thing from pitch forks to pots to a large spoon to defend themselves.

2. Using against people that have low unarmed. If disarmed was nerfed and made so it caps at perhaps 25% skill at level 500 and iron grip capped at 100% at 500, this would mean it would still have a low chance for noobs to disarm and a large chance for PVPers to use to their advantage against people they can't bother with while still not corrupting "higher level" PVP.




(Overall, no doubt 1000 Welsh Longbow men could annihilate twice their number of better armed, trained, rested french soldiers with swords in certain types of battles as proven many times before, but that is a certain type of battle not all battles the sword was better overall as a weapon.)

 

[Ddafad]

You have not trained your unarmed to 1000 so you do not realise how much of a b***h it is to train. And trying to disarm someone never works, by the time you have disarmed them your health is already down to 3 hearts. And the people with 1000 unarmed will not be some non-premium with nothing but his skin showing, they would most probably be a fully god armoured premium with a large array of god weapons and plenty of potions to drink.

 

[Mecharic]

I like this - no matter how weak a player is they should always have that freak chance to unarm the better fighter. Even a novice can kill a veteran by accident

As for it being useless, Tigrans have claws, which would make their unarmed as dangerous as daggers or swords.

 

[Fellbeast58blue]

Ahhh, I remember the good ol' days when, with a crappy iron sword I didn't care about, I would continuously run into an arena (perhaps like 20 times in a row) and fight people for a few seconds until one guy with a high unarmed skill came and in one hit, disarmed me and took my weapon, and then got me screwed.

Although Iron Grip may seem overpowered, the people who have a 100% chance of it blocking all disarm effects have worked very hard at leveling up their unarmed skill and deserve to have that buff. Even if Iron Grip does have to be nerfed for some reason, Disarm should then be very heavily nerved as well.

For instance, it isn't fair that someone who has an all-powerful god sword that they worked hard on enchanting, could all of the sudden lose it to someone with a high chance of Disarm. I mean, ideally the warrior would get some good use out of his/her painstakingly made sword. But no, they would immediately lose it the first second they entered battle against a player with high Disarm. It's flat out ridiculous. This is why serious PvPers need the 100% Iron Grip.

If anything is getting nerfed, I think it should be Disarm, that way newbies who haven't leveled up their Unarmed, and are new to the battlefield, don't get their weapon immediately jacked.

 

[Joshy54100]

When it comes to fully armored knights in platemail, the most effective weapon to take them down was an axe or similar heavy weapon. They could be used to knock them down, make dents in their armor, or even cleave right through it. Unarmed would probably be very useless against them, because if they hit you with anything, you couldn't block otherwise you'd suffer a severe hand injury. Unless you got super close to your opponent so you could maybe push them over and maybe gouge their eyes out. Though I doubt this would ever happen.

To relevance of this thread:

I think that Unarmed should not be debuffed in this manner, but probably in a different way. Not sure how though. :^)

 

[SkywardSword]

I will say from experience (even though I'm not 1k unarmed yet).. Training unarmed is a real pain; it takes ages. I think if someone spends that much time to get 1000 unarmed they should at least not have to worry about their crap getting disarmed. Everyone who agrees with this has under 1k unarmed.. So if you want to disarm, get 1k unarmed and disarm those who don't have it.

 

[BenRekt]

Check out the EDIT please

 

[TiroTypo]

Unarming an opponent is one of the best perks for a hit and run/defense fighters like myself... And one of the best reasons to train it. That and the probability of you taking the persons weapon once dropped is really low unless you use a knock back weapon on them right afterwards and stand on the dropped item for 2+ seconds which is enough time for the attacker to run back and knock you back. Also unarming an opponent with your bare hands once you've gotten a decent amount of training happens in real life as well so taking it out of the mcmmo would make the unarmed skill unpractical...

 

[Joshy54100]

So. Much. Hate.

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This isn't hate just general disagreement.

 

[Magivore]

So. Much. Hate.

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Check out the EDIT please

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๖ۣۜFirst off, not hate, just disagreement,

๖ۣۜSecond off, your edit just made that argument worse. Now you plan to remove it altogether? That really ruins some of the interesting part of PVP. Plus, think about it, if you realistically fight and train for about a month, equal to about 6 hours in MC time or something, idk, you would eventually become pretty damn good at finding weak spots, and taking someone's weapon very quickly, or working to keep your weapon in hand.


๖ۣۜTime to get nerdy... {{Both spoilers contain information. }}

Spoiler

๖ۣۜNow, when a layer of skin on your body tears, it obviously would grow back later on as it normally should. Once that happens, the skin sometimes is actually stronger than before, and the older skin that still is there can also act as a buffer. Basically, you form a thick skin, again, almost like a thick leather, upon your hands or the constantly wounded area, making it able to withstand more and longer.

Spoiler

The same thing happens when you get a scar, actually:
If you get a scar on things like joints, you'll actually note that it could actually be harder to move that joint. This is not only because it healed whilst it was within a closed state, but also because it is building more resistance against what would normally tear or kill it, example of resisting the stretching of it.

 

[Waminer]

๖ۣۜFirst off, not hate, just disagreement,

๖ۣۜSecond off, your edit just made that argument worse. Now you plan to remove it altogether? That really ruins some of the interesting part of PVP. Plus, think about it, if you realistically fight and train for about a month, equal to about 6 hours in MC time or something, idk, you would eventually become pretty damn good at finding weak spots, and taking someone's weapon very quickly, or working to keep your weapon in hand.

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While I can see the 21st century logic behind "Anything is possible if I try my bestest!" this is wrong in a medieval role-play setting. While I disagree with the complete removal of disarm saying this is anything close to realistic is wrong. You could train from 6 years old to 26 years old in unarmed combat and still lose 9/10 times against a young 11 year old squire with a mail hauberk, closed helm and a sword if he had maybe a year and a half of real training. If you punch someone wearing boiled leather and fur, the effect will minimal maybe a bruise. If you punch someone wearing mail you will possibly make them sore and tear your hand to pieces. If you punch a person in heavy mail and plate you have successfully broken your hand and allowed them to take your head off. You can't get close enough to disarm them if they have a sword 19/20 times and if you do its like "HAHA! I have successfully moved close enough you cant slice at me!"-Pleb "Oh damn, now I only have the choice of a overhead swing, jab, punching you with an actual iron fist, bashing you with my shield or just smashing into you breaking some of your ribs and knocking you over while I would be fine.

๖ۣۜNow, when a layer of skin on your body tears, it obviously would grow back later on as it normally should. Once that happens, the skin sometimes is actually stronger than before, and the older skin that still is there can also act as a buffer. Basically, you form a thick skin, again, almost like a thick leather, upon your hands or the constantly wounded area, making it able to withstand more and longer. The same thing happens when you get a scar, actually:
If you get a scar on things like joints, you'll actually note that it could actually be harder to move that joint. This is not only because it healed whilst it was within a closed state, but also because it is building more resistance against what would normally tear or kill it, example of resisting the stretching of it.

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Ok, I'm going to be honest here, this is flat out ridiculous. The people with the hardest skin in medieval ages were probably women who sewed a lot. There is no way that callused skin would become anything close to leather or anything useful and your better off wrapping a cloth around your hand than is. In fact a cloth may actually prevent you from getting cut by another person's armor and you would only have hurt/broken fist. Improvement!

 

[Fellbeast58blue]

EDIT: After hearing some of you, I think it would be better to just remove disarming all together because it basically makes battles depending on a number, your Unarmed skill and the number of hours on your hands.

Either this our lower the level it caps at. The main point is that it's not realistic that a guy fighting a warrior using his bear hands AND WINNING just doesnt make very much sense. Unless your Chuck Norris.

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I still disagree with this. Even though what I said above may make it not seem like so, I still believe that PvPers should still be able to Disarm other players, just not those who have worked very, very hard to level up their Unarmed skill, and get the 100% iron grip bonus. If Disarm and Iron Grip is taken away, Unarmed fighting will pretty much be obsolete.

 

[Magivore]

Ok, I'm going to be honest here, this is flat out ridiculous. The people with the hardest skin in medieval ages were probably women who sewed a lot. There is no way that callused skin would become anything close to leather or anything useful and your better off wrapping a cloth around your hand than is. In fact a cloth may actually prevent you from getting cut by another person's armor and you would only have hurt/broken fist. Improvement!

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๖ۣۜWell, never said it still wouldn't be shitty. You do have a great point though, it certainly wouldn't do crap about sword and such.
Sorry, writing this whilst I am tired isn't my best idea. xD
๖ۣۜAnd, also, I did state it can form to be LIKE a sort of leather, but I didn't state it would be exact. It would certainly be a lot closer to it than the skin before-hand.

๖ۣۜHowever, if you do train to fight for long enough with your bare-hands, you eventually COULD gain the skills to best someone with a blade, you would have to be extremely well trained. However, against armour, yeah, you're useless.

 

[Togal]

Oh great now everyone can run around with OP weapons and the other people with no weapons won't stand a chance...

 

[Fellbeast58blue]

Oh great now everyone can run around with OP weapons and the other people with no weapons won't stand a chance...

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What are you talking about? Newbies who first log onto the server start off with enough money to buy decent battle gear.

 

[BenRekt]

Oh great now everyone can run around with OP weapons and the other people with no weapons won't stand a chance...

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Togal it's a horrible situation, but at least the less-skilled fighters wouldn't lose thier hard-earned weapons within the first few seconds.

 

[Fellbeast58blue]

In Mideval Times, most like-minded people didnt prefer thier bare-hands to a sharp sword, so yeah, your bear hands should be how you say "obsolete".

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Oh ok, so now it seems like you're suggesting that Unarmed be removed altogether. I mean, first you just want Iron Grip to be nerfed, then you wanted Iron Grip and Disarm to be removed altogether, and now this. I bet that next, you'll want MCmmo to be removed completely.

 

[Magivore]

This makes lite sense to me simply because you mention the word "realistically". You say it is realistic that a guy using his bare hands can disarm someone wielding a sword? Because I can assure you that "realistically" that guy with the sword would f***in' chop that dude's head off! I mean we could always go with your realistic thinking that since the unarmed guy knows where to hit te swordsman he'll just make the swordsman drop his sword and go "WOOOPS Butter fingers again". Even dumber is that you go into how skin can become leather-strong through scars and damage? I have a huge ass scar from surgery on the back of my leg and it's soft as hell. I really do not get your logic whatsoever.

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๖ۣۜWell, never said it still wouldn't be shitty. You do have a great point though, it certainly wouldn't do crap about sword and such.
Sorry, writing this whilst I am tired isn't my best idea. xD
๖ۣۜAnd, also, I did state it can form to be LIKE a sort of leather, but I didn't state it would be exact. It would certainly be a lot closer to it than the skin before-hand.

๖ۣۜHowever, if you do train to fight for long enough with your bare-hands, you eventually COULD gain the skills to best someone with a blade, you would have to be extremely well trained. However, against armour, yeah, you're useless.

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๖ۣۜI corrected it. And apparently you didn't read when I stated that I corrected it.

๖ۣۜLet alone, you missed the words that were underlined and coloured differently.


๖ۣۜAnd apparently, you had a lot of fun mocking me in the process. Not too happy about that, either. Instead of actively just mocking me, at least tell it MATURELY the way Waminer did. He was able to tell to me that my ideas were really poor, without making fun of my mistake.

๖ۣۜFinal point, you also didn't read CAN. Never said it always would.

 

[FCCarnilord]

Edit: Skin CAN harden over time, reasons in post, but scars will not usually harden, they are the absence of some skin and flesh in that spot.
BenAlex144 watch what you post, you might start a flame on Your own thread.
The correct way to disagree with someone who meant no offense or ANYTHING to you or someone/something else is to calmly state your arguement against them, not be as rude as you did. Anyway.
Iron grip doesn't make much sense, but is IS true skin can adapt and harden over time from working on farms and stuff, just not to the points you can prevent someone from disarming you. Your hand becomes a little bit more resistant, but the real way to prevent yourself from being unarmed is depending on your grip on the weapon. When you train, the more you do, and if done correctly, your grip to the weapon should be more solid and comfortable, in the case that you do not want to lose your weapon while swinging.
I generally disagree with this idea.