The Class Divide - To Much Hatred?

[aprader1]

Here on Massive as you probably are aware, the social classes are much more defined. Nobles are the rich and powerful people who's word alone is unmatched. And then the commoners, which is everyone else.

Social classes do exist in real life, and yes, prejudice is a thing between them. However, it may be to much for Massive.

Massive, is as we know, a role play server. Where you can be whoever you want and do whatever you want. However, forcing prejudice against classes should not be enforced.

For example, the Golden Willow has a section called the noble lounge. This is strictly for nobles. Massive feels like it is forcing characters who play nobles to purposefully be mean and cruel to those of lesser wealth.

Yes the class system does exist and yes this is relevant to real life. However, players should have the option of choosing to be mean or not and not have this stereotype forced.

Basically, the class system on Massive should be a thing. But purposely putting in these negative stereotypes is wrong. Dare I say teaching the audience (tending to be younger children) about this prejudice. Yes it's important it is recognized but it should not be glorified.

I hope this makes sense and please leave feedback. I hope we can make a better role play community.

 

[AtticCat]

This is the wrong section for this post but I'll add that many noble characters are actually really nice to those that are "below" them even though it'd be expected for them to be mean. Many of them also play Slum characters so it's not like they don't get their fair share of being bullied by nobles/guards and also hanging out with the commoners. I don't think this is teaching anyone bad, honestly, because also the majority of people that play Massive are 14+ - older enough to know how the world really works.

The noble lounge is suppose to separate nobles from commoners but nobles don't have to sit there and commoners get invited in all the time. It's there so that nobles can get away from the petty thieves constantly on their backs and disruptive people so they can talk about boring stuff like military and government.

 

[Reaganism]

Meet up with the nobles who aren't mean and support them. Gives them power and leverage over the mean nobles. Thus you have a say in it all.

 

[aprader1]

Meet up with the nobles who aren't mean and support them. Gives them power and leverage over the mean nobles. Thus you have a say in it all.

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I'm aware there are nice nobles but there are a fair share of mean ones. Usually it's mean IC which is acceptable but I don't think this hatred is something we should have, or even encourage. It just feels bad

 

[Aespair]

Thread moved to Roleplay Information.

Also, it's less that it's a stereotype that nobles must follow, and more like individual character design. Some people like playing characters that simply dislike those below them, and others actually are nice to Commoners. House Reinard is a good example of the latter. Many, however, hold a lot of power and thus command respect. If you don't give them what they think they deserve, you risk being punished by them. Just try to treat them as respectfully as possible if you don't want them to get angry with you.

 

[FireFan96]

I've never seen a noble being mean just to be mean. Gruff sure, but not malicious.

Yeah nobles have a lot of resources at their disposal, but their human like everyone else. I'd actually argue that commoners have the advantage, because nobility have to follow several etiquette codes and conduct themselves a certain manner lest they lose favor with the Imperial Court of the Emperor.

The noble lounge, in my opinion, is not that big of a deal. Some nobility actually go out of their way not to go there. And in my time using it, I see more commoners sneaking in than actual nobility.

I honestly don't see what the issue is with nobility. Heck, I think on Massive it's already a stretch to see a noble and commoner enjoying the same drinks in the same building. Any commoner can simply walk up to a noble and talk to them. The only catch is that they need to recognize that this isn't some Joe Schmoe at the bar; this is Joe Schmoe's boss.

 

[SnugglyKittens]

There are plenty of nobles who are nice and plenty who are not so.

Some nobles are raised with values that say they should limit their interraction with commoners, some really could not care any less. Mine started off as a commoner and as such but she is not interested in idle chatter with people. So if you are commoner or noble who serves a purpose in her books; is part of the military or drinks a lot of alcohol, she will talk to you and socialize. If not, or if you are not Ailor, regardless of your standing, she will ignore you.

. Dare I say teaching the audience (tending to be younger children) about this prejudice. Yes it's important it is recognized but it should not be glorified.

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What you have to consider is that people are joining a roleplay server that has a piece of lore that basically states that humans are above every other race, and some cultures state that women are a lower 'class' than men. I think that dividing humans in terms of social status is the least of concerns if you want to look into how massive is reaching bad morals.

 

[aprader1]

There are plenty of nobles who are nice and plenty who are not so.

Some nobles are raised with values that say they should limit their interraction with commoners, some really could not care any less. Mine started off as a commoner and as such but she is not interested in idle chatter with people. So if you are commoner or noble who serves a purpose in her books; is part of the military or drinks a lot of alcohol, she will talk to you and socialize. If not, or if you are not Ailor, regardless of your standing, she will ignore you.



What you have to consider is that people are joining a roleplay server that has a piece of lore that basically states that humans are above every other race, and some cultures state that women are a lower 'class' than men. I think that dividing humans in terms of social status is the least of concerns if you want to look into how massive is reaching bad morals.

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Yes I realize that is also a thing however I personally have not seen that portrayed as commonly as the wealth aspect. Dare I say the Ailor racism per say is not as much of a problem. Mostly due to the fact that these races are made up and never existed. The nobles and commoner divide was and may still be a real thing. I'm not trying to ignore the races issue but I believe the fact that they are made up justifies this.

 

[MetalG00se]

Just my little bit on social classes, and such.
I haven't yet read other inputs, so I'm not sure exactly what was said. But, from what I've seen since joining massive is that while it's implied by the lore that there is a gap between the social classes, I don't often see it done. I've often seen outsiders or lower class citizens/races protected and defended by Ailors and higher classes. While, sure, it could be character design, it just seems everyone wants to go with it. I have seen little to none real discrimination, and I hardly see a difference in treatment between classes. An Ailor would hold the door for an Altalar just as quick as they would another Ailor. First class citizens have secret relations with outsiders when it likely wouldn't really happen. I'm not meaning this as a 'You're completely wrong, gah.' This is just from what I've seen. I feel the gap between social classes isn't near as big as I think it could be, or possibly even should be.
If you're wanting to play a Shendar or Drowdar, that's wonderful. But I would hope you'd expect some discrimination. Not all races are equal, though many RP as if they are. I'm just rambling at this point. Sorry to anyone who read through this.

 

[SnugglyKittens]

Yes I realize that is also a thing however I personally have not seen that portrayed as commonly as the wealth aspect.

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It's rp'd a lot by nobles. It's just more subtle. Commoners tend to be more accepting ot the other races, and guard charters tend to take other races, but I've seen plenty of people hostile to, elves especially.
It is also in lore law, that overall, the server is hella racist.

"
Law Twelve: Regalian Superiority
Any and all non-Humans with the exception of Nelfin and Dwarven species are disallowed from holding political, civil or military office, with the sole exception of those granted Humanum right by the Emperor. Those that are in office for whatever reason, regardless of circumstance, must adopt Regalian customs and traditions, as well as the Imperial High Culture. Any failure to comply will lead to dismissal."
[HERE]

There is also a section which basically says that Ailor are above a lot of races
[HERE]

The nobles and commoner divide was and may still be a real thing. I'm not trying to ignore the races issue but I believe the fact that they are made up justifies this.

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Honestly I feel as though you are looking far too much into the divide of two social classes on a make believe roleplay world. Nobles passively demand more respect. I really wanted to quote a law I swear I saw but alas, I can not find it.

Instead, here. Nobles have their own page of rules on how to act within society [HERE], They are allowed to carry weapons in public:
"Law One: Regalian Weapons
Anyone in Regalia who does not have the express permission from the correct government institutions are not permitted to wear a weapon in plain sight. Having a Noble Title or individual Charter Rights override this law." and there is a law that states that it is illegal to impersonate nobles:
"
Law Three: Regalian Identity
It is forbidden for anyone to conceal their face from recognition, or to pretend to be someone who they are not. Impersonation of nobility in particularly is strictly punished."
[HERE]

What the point, well, two points I am trying to make are:

1. There are more serious things to worry about than the seperation of social classes. Whether you have seen it enforced or not, it is likely because, and I am making an assumption here, that you have just not seen it.
2. Nobles have every right to act better than commoners, because they have been gifted nobility by the emperor, regardless of whether they were born a noble or achieved it themselves. They have so many things backing them up; laws and rules which allows them, gives them the right to act better than commoners. How they display it is down to the character. Solaine d'Vaud is a good example of someone who treats people equally regardless of social standing.

None of this makes, or is aimed to make your point invalid; it's not a great thing when you take into consideration that yes, there is a seperation and it might likely hinder your RP with certain people, but it isn't a problem - it just is how it is.

 

[MetalG00se]

I say race a lot, but social class in just Ailor society should be noted as well. A lowly farm hand likely wouldn't have been seen dining with a banker. I think that should be portrayed in massive. As, you choose how you play. If you want to play with hardships and possible barriers to contest, I applaud you. But, you should be ready to face these things if you choose to.

 

[Mayaran]

Solaine d'Vaud is a good example of someone who treats people equally regardless of social standing.

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<3

 

[jhtpo1]

So, i have to agree that the laws as written are sexist, racist, homophobic, bigoted, and all othet sorts of mean. And thats ok.

This is not a saturday morning feel good episode on friendship. This is a world of battle, war, political intrigue, crime and other nasties.

The point of the laws are not for equality, they are for the survival of the emperor, his family, his power, and the empire. Thats why Jacobism is literally heresy.

And ya know what? Thats great for stories! Thats great for goals and strife, and problems and solutions. If everything is equal and perfect, then thats a boring world!

Why wouldnt the Ailor feel superior? They have culture and kingdoms while dirty others have always been the source of problems

A noble is responsible for his territory, overseeing the production and prosperity of his lands, why shouldnt he feel more entitled than the simple blacksmith?

All hail the emperor for his wisdom and grace! You have so much to be thankful for, thanks to him.


What, you dont believe that? Go back to the slums, you heritic.

 

[Amores]

This is not a saturday morning feel good episode on friendship. This is a world of battle, war, political intrigue, crime and other nasties.

The point of the laws are not for equality, they are for the survival of the emperor, his family, his power, and the empire. Thats why Jacobism is literally heresy.

And ya know what? Thats great for stories! Thats great for goals and strife, and problems and solutions. If everything is equal and perfect, then thats a boring world!

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This would be a valid point if there were actual divides in the beliefs of people and not just a few nobles here and there who have their time to shine but ultimately never make an impactful change to the overall roleplay scene, there's always a trial and talk but no one ever says they're in support of the person post execution or punishment, at least not that I've seen.

 

[MonMarty]

SJW and guilt washing of noble class is actually a serious problem in nobility. I'd argue the divide of wealth and class isn't severe enough. Someone who proclaims that these factors are prejudice is just incredibly ignorant to feudal and serf-oriented societal norms which are accurate and present in our lore.

That and know, occasionally when these threads pop up, posters are all too eager to defend themselves as kind and nice people, but the complainers make a very distinct lack of actually providing data to support the notion that a large group of nobles is mean. Names versus names really. I think if anyone actually sat down to make a list of mean nobles versus a list of kind nobles, you'll come to a very shocking conclusion that your assumptions about nobility are fundamentally wrong.

 

[Rinus]

I will say that I've always found the noble system a tiny bit exhausting due to the fact that I've mainly rped on mmos in the last year or two where no one really bats an eye at someone making a noble character. Noble rp still exists but it isn't kept behind a gate so that only the Approved™ rpers can get in, instead it becomes more accessible to everyone while still maintaining the power crawl that nobility rp here has.

I think what also could be interesting is for the rp scene to acknowledge racism, sexism and homophobia as IC problems that need to be solved instead of IC constants that are always gonna exist in the society at a systemic level. In a RP scenario where racism, sexism and homophobia exist, its important not just to acknowledge "these are bad IRL" but "These actions are allowed IC by a society that is incredibly flawed in that respect, and this flaw can make this society become an antagonistic force." I've always found it confusing that massivecraft rejects the rp of civil rights movements and equality movements when those could bring a breed of rp that honestly hasn't been seen that much IC here. Making the protagonists common people fighting for rights and the antagonists those who uphold the conservative values of Regalia could bring an interesting new angle to RP.

Regalia is an incredibly flawed society in many respects, if we were to view these flaws as reasons for Regalia to be considered an all powerful antagonist instead of a mighty protagonist that crushes the degenerates, more interesting roleplay could be introduced, and it could lead to more interesting storylines for people who don't want to rp nobility.

This isn't to say I don't agree with there being a rped out division of wealth and resources in Regalia, I'd say quite the opposite, my idea would not work without it- It's just if you're going down that route, I feel it could be more interesting to play those who are specifically more in power as antagonists and allow the common people to be protagonists in the story.

But that's just my two cents.

 

[SnugglyKittens]

. I'd argue the divide of wealth and class isn't severe enough.

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This.

 

[HeyoBiggums]

Sometimes that all goes down to culture. House Bolshekov can be seen as one of the 'mean' houses. Due to Vladno culture, and from the words of a previous Emperor, Theomar. It's also stated in the third Creed of Unionism. I'm sure that we all can agree that we treat individuals that aren't Ailor as lessers, and should be slaves. After all, Iva wears a Varran Fur coat, and Allar scale boots. My fam can agree and support this.


@AntonVoron @CrysRazapple @Inquisitater @Mooffins

 

[MantaRey]

Thats great for stories! Thats great for goals and strife, and problems and solutions. If everything is equal and perfect, then thats a boring world!

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[jhtpo1]

The biggest issue is that we have players who are used to the fruits of 400 years of social uphevals, trying to play people that have never known any other form of life.

 

[Rinus]

The biggest issue is that we have players who are used to the fruits of 400 years of social uphevals, trying to play people that have never known any other form of life.

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You can rp an unequal society while still taking a negative stance towards the inequality of the time period it's set in. Game Of Thrones, for example, in general has a very negative view of war and medieval times. It's realistic, wars and inequality do exist but they are not looked upon as character quirks or beneficial traits but instead are seen as flaws. Taking a modern day view of inequality allows a new dynamic of rp to be brought up as we could see a society evolve and change from inequality to equality, or even see a society try to become more equal and then have this equality quashed, leaving only ideas of what could have been. Both of these scenarios accept that inequality existed but they take a negative viewpoint to that inequality and paint it as a deliberate flaw instead of just a characteristic. If the inequality only exists as an unchangeable quirk of the society thats being rped, it doesnt offer good rp because the society is not able to develop in that respect. There's no use of rping unchanging hardship in the same way there's no use rping unchanging equality or unchanging prosperity or unchanging ANYTHING: A rp setting needs to be constantly in flux. It needs to be able and change and develop in the same way that characters are expected to, for better or for worse.

 

[aprader1]

SJW and guilt washing of noble class is actually a serious problem in nobility. I'd argue the divide of wealth and class isn't severe enough. Someone who proclaims that these factors are prejudice is just incredibly ignorant to feudal and serf-oriented societal norms which are accurate and present in our lore.

That and know, occasionally when these threads pop up, posters are all too eager to defend themselves as kind and nice people, but the complainers make a very distinct lack of actually providing data to support the notion that a large group of nobles is mean. Names versus names really. I think if anyone actually sat down to make a list of mean nobles versus a list of kind nobles, you'll come to a very shocking conclusion that your assumptions about nobility are fundamentally wrong.

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The reason I bring this up is from a scenario just the other night. For the purpose of protecting those involved I will not be naming names, and those who were there and do remember this scene, I am not mad OOC. Not in the slightest.

Basically my character was purposefully not allowed to talk to (insert noble character name here) for the sole fact he was not a noble. He was upset about this and after some arguing was kicked out of the Golden Willow simply for being a commoner. This is just one example as I have dealt with this kind of discrimination before. It happens more often than you think. In the end of this scenario here I was kicked out of the bar and basically not allowed to rp with them anymore. I can deal with IC discrimination, that's fine, but refusing to RP simply for playing a commoner should not be tolerated. It just takes the IC racism etc and pushes it to the OOC aspect. Which, as I'm sure all of us are aware, is not ok. Not in the slightest. This is the reason as to why I made this post. It's not the fact that it exists IC but often it branches out OOC that's distasteful and cruel. That is the main issue I am trying to address.

 

[aprader1]

Thread moved to Roleplay Information.

Also, it's less that it's a stereotype that nobles must follow, and more like individual character design. Some people like playing characters that simply dislike those below them, and others actually are nice to Commoners. House Reinard is a good example of the latter. Many, however, hold a lot of power and thus command respect. If you don't give them what they think they deserve, you risk being punished by them. Just try to treat them as respectfully as possible if you don't want them to get angry with you.

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Sorry had no idea where to put this. Thank you! I don't make roleplay threads very often.

 

[AtticCat]

The reason I bring this up is from a scenario just the other night. For the purpose of protecting those involved I will not be naming names, and those who were there and do remember this scene, I am not mad OOC. Not in the slightest.

Basically my character was purposefully not allowed to talk to (insert noble character name here) for the sole fact he was not a noble. He was upset about this and after some arguing was kicked out of the Golden Willow simply for being a commoner. This is just one example as I have dealt with this kind of discrimination before. It happens more often than you think. In the end of this scenario here I was kicked out of the bar and basically not allowed to rp with them anymore. I can deal with IC discrimination, that's fine, but refusing to RP simply for playing a commoner should not be tolerated. It just takes the IC racism etc and pushes it to the OOC aspect. Which, as I'm sure all of us are aware, is not ok. Not in the slightest. This is the reason as to why I made this post. It's not the fact that it exists IC but often it branches out OOC that's distasteful and cruel. That is the main issue I am trying to address.

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You were kicked out of the bar because you were causing a scene with a noble- they're not going to remove the noble because they are a noble.

 

[MonMarty]

Basically my character

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Can't take this serious without hearing the other side, because there's a bunch of fundamental problems with this:

• Guards, Nobles, do not have the right to eject anyone from the tavern or bar. They only have the right to eject commoners from the noble lounge, where commoners aren't even allowed to be. They know this.
• Being ejected out of a bar - is RP. You're not being tossed out OOC or teleported away, the ejection itself is a form of roleplay. There's loads of places outside of the tavern where you can go then, which has less than 10% of the server population when there isn't an event going on.

The problem with this rhetoric is that you're not providing a name, not allowing the accused party to defend, and accosting an entire community of 100+ members for this behavior which can't even be proven because you're not letting the other side give their story. You're essentially forming a pitchfork mob with no evidence and then claiming innocence.

 

[MokeDuck]

Massive is set in a historical environment. To change or soften this would be to misrepresent history. IC, you can encourage this kind of change. Thats fine. However, prejudice cannot be hidden any more than history can be hidden. This is a pretend thing for pretend people. It cannot be bad to show people examples of social injustice any more than it is bad to read history. Prejudice and other social injustice should be encouraged, as it is beneficial and VERY good for people to be aware of. Social injustice in an environment of fiction can actually lead to social justice in the real life. To hide social injustice in the grounds that its ugly is just mean. "Younger children" can't handle some things, but this is NOT one of them.

You also fail to say what massive should or shouldn't do. I read in your post that they have a noble lounge. Do you just wan't to be able to roleplay in the noble lounge or do you think they should remove it? How does the lounge force nobles to be mean to people? How are social barriers even detrimental to roleplay? You aren't stuck on one side like in real life. You can hop the fence and play both sides as you will. This is not a problem that should be fixed OOC. I encourage you to roleplay this out IC, as that is the point of massive "forcing" prejudice.

I'm also not gonna respond to anything more here cause its not worth my time (no offence, i just type too much). I've said all I have to say, and if you have questions or anything I'm sure you can just re-read what I said and imagine how I would respond.

 

[SnugglyKittens]

but refusing to RP simply for playing a commoner should not be tolerated.

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Of course it should be! It's rp. Role play. You being a commoner is part of the rp and you being denied rp, is because of that. Unless they are sending PMs or making comments to you OOCly about it all, then it is entirely roleplay.

If you dislike how you're being recieved in RP by being a commoner, apply to play a noble character.

 

[MonMarty]

Basically my character

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Actually I quickly looked into this. Now granted, this is not entirely representative, since I cannot see what is on the other end, but, in rough chronological order:

• Your character conspired to cause mayhem to the guards
• Called someone a Dingle jerk
• Then ridiculed me (like, me personally) in a PM to someone, but that is not relevant to the RP I guess
• Called the bartender stupid
• demanded an apology, didn't get one and told the bartender to f*ck himself
• Told the bartenders to kiss your behind again
• Told someone to go f*ck themselves
• threw money at someone
• Then said the drink he was sold tasted like pig urine
• called the bartender a drag
• called the nobles rude
• told the bartender to f*ck off again
• told Camilla Ravenstad her family meant nothing
• told Camilla Ravenstad her name meant nothing
• Was told to stop being such a bother and called everyone racists
• Then confessed to killing people for a living
• Then pulled out a weapon in public

Maybe the problem isn't with the nobles? Playing the devil's advocate, maybe you should not play such an aggressively abrasive character?

 

[MrH_]

The reason I bring this up is from a scenario just the other night. For the purpose of protecting those involved I will not be naming names, and those who were there and do remember this scene, I am not mad OOC. Not in the slightest.

Basically my character was purposefully not allowed to talk to (insert noble character name here) for the sole fact he was not a noble. He was upset about this and after some arguing was kicked out of the Golden Willow simply for being a commoner. This is just one example as I have dealt with this kind of discrimination before. It happens more often than you think. In the end of this scenario here I was kicked out of the bar and basically not allowed to rp with them anymore. I can deal with IC discrimination, that's fine, but refusing to RP simply for playing a commoner should not be tolerated. It just takes the IC racism etc and pushes it to the OOC aspect. Which, as I'm sure all of us are aware, is not ok. Not in the slightest. This is the reason as to why I made this post. It's not the fact that it exists IC but often it branches out OOC that's distasteful and cruel. That is the main issue I am trying to address.

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I'll go ahead and weigh in on this, since my character was involved. Your character was asked to leave the Willow for being rude to the bartenders, my character included. He was never forcefully removed or kicked out, and in fact nothing was said when he came back literally less than a minute afterwards. You were never asked on an OOC standpoint not to RP with anyone (to my knowledge), and I think it only makes sense on an IC standpoint for the Willow employees to not want any of the nobility to be harassed in the tavern, because that reflects badly on them and the establishment itself. My character, Mateo, is a commoner. No prejudice Mateo held against your character had anything to do with his status, but more to do with the fact that your character was being generally rude to him, and a co-worker that he is close with. That's not even to mention the noblewoman who your character was seemingly attempting to hit on at the bar, while stating that she and other nobles are rude, and that their names mean nothing. I've played my Willow bartender for well over two years now, albeit with a few very long gaps I took where I was entirely inactive on the server. I am genuinely sorry if anything I said came across as rude OOC yesterday, as that was definitely not my intent. In future, I'm more than willing to accept feedback and criticism on the way I play my character, so you don't have to protect my identity by not calling me out.

 

[aprader1]

I'll go ahead and weigh in on this, since my character was involved. Your character was asked to leave the Willow for being rude to the bartenders, my character included. He was never forcefully removed or kicked out, and in fact nothing was said when he came back literally less than a minute afterwards. You were never asked on an OOC standpoint not to RP with anyone (to my knowledge), and I think it only makes sense on an IC standpoint for the Willow employees to not want any of the nobility to be harassed in the tavern, because that reflects badly on them and the establishment itself. My character, Mateo, is a commoner. No prejudice Mateo held against your character had anything to do with his status, but more to do with the fact that your character was being generally rude to him, and a co-worker that he is close with. That's not even to mention the noblewoman who your character was seemingly attempting to hit on at the bar, while stating that she and other nobles are rude, and that their names mean nothing. I've played my Willow bartender for well over two years now, albeit with a few very long gaps I took where I was entirely inactive on the server. I am genuinely sorry if anything I said came across as rude OOC yesterday, as that was definitely not my intent. In future, I'm more than willing to accept feedback and criticism on the way I play my character, so you don't have to protect my identity by not calling me out.

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I have nothing against you OOC. Usually I dont name names because then it sounds like I am complaining that "so and so was mean I dont like them". Thats not what I am doing. The "incident" that happened yesterday was RP but it felt odd, almost directed to me as an individual, and not the character. I dont really know what im trying to say here sorry. Point is totally cool OOC no worries.

 

[aprader1]

Actually I quickly looked into this. Now granted, this is not entirely representative, since I cannot see what is on the other end, but, in rough chronological order:

• Your character conspired to cause mayhem to the guards
• Called someone a Dingle jerk
• Then ridiculed me (like, me personally) in a PM to someone, but that is not relevant to the RP I guess
• Called the bartender stupid
• demanded an apology, didn't get one and told the bartender to f*ck himself
• Told the bartenders to kiss your behind again
• Told someone to go f*ck themselves
• threw money at someone
• Then said the drink he was sold tasted like pig urine
• called the bartender a drag
• called the nobles rude
• told the bartender to f*ck off again
• told Camilla Ravenstad her family meant nothing
• told Camilla Ravenstad her name meant nothing
• Was told to stop being such a bother and called everyone racists
• Then confessed to killing people for a living
• Then pulled out a weapon in public

Maybe the problem isn't with the nobles? Playing the devil's advocate, maybe you should not play such an aggressively abrasive character?

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The "making fun of you" was in regards to the world chat messages. I was only having a little fun, and I apologize if you took it personally. I never meant to be rude in any way at all. I was merely poking a little fun at your exchuasted self. Trust me, iv been there. Again very sorry if you saw this as mean

 

[MonMarty]

The "making fun of you" was in regards to the world chat messages. I was only having a little fun, and I apologize if you took it personally. I never meant to be rude in any way at all. I was merely poking a little fun at your exchuasted self. Trust me, iv been there. Again very sorry if you saw this as mean

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I'm not. But the point is that it shouldn't detract from the fact that nearly a quarter of your character's roleplay is just dispensing insults. It sort of puts a very different context on a thread where you're trying to publicly shame a whole group of people for something you yourself were the cause of.

 

[aprader1]

I'm not. But the point is that it shouldn't detract from the fact that nearly a quarter of your character's roleplay is just dispensing insults. It sort of puts a very different context on a thread where you're trying to publicly shame a whole group of people for something you yourself were the cause of.

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I was not trying to "publicly shame" a group. Not at all. The point I was trying to make is during that incident and in the past as well that nobles have played a large role in segregating themselves from commoners. As you can probably see from the messages where the "lady" in this case says that my character should get her some sort of fancy drink. Somewhere around there i guess as well as toward the beginning of conversations with her. All in all, the divide between the classes is a thing and shouldn't be ignored, but glorified may be a bit to far

 

[SnugglyKittens]

You're sort of disregarding the fact that Marty pointed out that your entire characters interaction around that was abraisive. Maybe if you played a nicer, more appealing character, you might have got what you wanted.

Why would /anyone/, noble or otherwise, want to interract with a character that:

• Your character conspired to cause mayhem to the guards

• Called someone a Dingle jerk

• Then ridiculed me (like, me personally) in a PM to someone, but that is not relevant to the RP I guess

• Called the bartender stupid

• demanded an apology, didn't get one and told the bartender to f*ck himself

• Told the bartenders to kiss your behind again

• Told someone to go f*ck themselves

• threw money at someone

• Then said the drink he was sold tasted like pig urine

• called the bartender a drag

• called the nobles rude

• told the bartender to f*ck off again

• told Camilla Ravenstad her family meant nothing

• told Camilla Ravenstad her name meant nothing

• Was told to stop being such a bother and called everyone racists

• Then confessed to killing people for a living

• Then pulled out a weapon in public

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[EndersGameboy]

I would just like to say, very quickly, that things like the Noble Lounge are made to make MassiveCraft role-play more realistic and defined, that is the complete point.

 

[Gwyndo]

Nah man don't worry about it, just stay away from those nasty nobles and come on down to the underground of the Slums.

Hell, you can even act as brash and hostile as you like, us Kathar will accept you with loving open arms.

Legal Disclaimer: Potential reactions that involve or result in your character being brutally sacrificed to the void gods through agonising ritual execution may occur, and are not the responsibility or fault of Gwyndo and Co. Please insult Kathar responsibly.

 

[SkullScrub]

loving open arms.
.

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*strong, strangling

 

[Starryy]

The point I was trying to make is during that incident and in the past as well that nobles have played a large role in segregating themselves from commoners. As you can probably see from the messages where the "lady" in this case says that my character should get her some sort of fancy drink.

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Dude, he was hitting her up, they were in a tavern, she's going to naturally assume he wants to buy a drink for her and it had nothing to do with class- She picked the fancy Vixhall wine because that's her favorite, not to be any sort of purposeful drain on his funds. Camilla Ravenstad here btw, I'm famous now, please shower me with adoration.
Any how. If Camilla had wanted to make the situation about class, she could have discerned he was not noble just by looking at him, and refused to respond. Instead she decided to use him for a drink, because she's a bit of a prick like that, and so the situation ensued.

The fateful moment when class came up was because he didn't give her a last name when introducing himself, and she goes, "oh yeah, not many commoners have surnames you're good" He was offended by this, and the conversation takes a turn towards him beginning to tell her that her family and person are worthless, as Marty pointed out.
She didn't even tell him to leave afterward, but chose to decline the offer to leave and speak privately with him, because he was a stranger and a Jacobinist who had just insulted her personally. He tried to pressure her then, by telling her that she was no better than the other nobles if he didn't go with her, to which she simply brushed off because stranger danger.

It was at this point that the rest of the room decided to have him removed if he wouldn't drop the conversation, because he was actively harassing a noblewoman, not because he was common. If another nobleman was harassing her in this way and asking her to go somewhere alone with him, the response would be the same, because this is generally not acceptable behavior from anyone in a tavern. He also said he'd like to hit her, which was further reason for them to want to remove him.

In the end he was never forcefully removed. He cut his palm with a knife, bloodied the counter, and left.
I apologize sincerely if you felt belittled by Camilla's behavior, she'll bum a drink off anyone if they approach her with intent. She's opportunistic and rude like that. I won't comment on the call to solve this supposed problem, I just decided to report on how I saw the situation cited as noble cruelty occur and defend my case as the cruel noble. I'm not mad either, but I hope you'll learn that no one is attacking you, your character or your character's standing in society because noblewomen don't like being told they aren't important.

 

[Last_Link]

Playing "bad" guys is a good thing, without them theres nothing to develop the story. Personally id love to see more "not give a damn" characters like @Jonificus who actually makes me feel better about myself because he is actually going out of his way to treat my tiny little house like it poses any threat at all to his massive wheat field empire when it realistically doesn't.

Alot of people are saying in this thread that your character is being very violent. Why not just embrace that instead of pretending they are a beacon of morality? At the end of the day there are no "bad" characters, only ones that accomplish their goals differently, and if you want your character can do that. Just expect to be treated as an antagonist by others, which is desperately needed right now. Whats the difference between a good guy and a bad guy in a world where they both think they are doing the right thing?

There is none.

 

[MonMarty]

Ravenstad here btw, I'm famous now, please shower me with adoration.

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OMG CRUSTY I LOVE YOU