Archived Make Regalia Small Again

[InDogsWeTrust]

This is a pretty simple thread, really.

I love Regalia, it's architecture is beautiful and complex. I've put my praise to the world staff in a spoiler.

Spoiler

Honestly, I love the look and feel of the city. It's literally so gorgeous and ornate and complex. No detail is ever neglected. There are diverse regions and so much fantastic opportunity for adding your own flare with areashop regions. Specifically I love the islehouses, the Ithanian district, the park district, and the garden district. Even the way the slums are built gives them an impoverished feel. Its just A++ work. Perfectly executed concept. Love it.

But its frickin' ginormous. We have too much of an amazingly awesome thing. It's literally impossible to find people unless you arrange a meeting place via event, invite them over OOCLY, or go to a hotspot. Personally, I don't like that.

I remember the re-release of Silverwind, which was exciting, but was a flop. Why? Because Massive's single-city RP is what makes it special and fun. The playerbase is too small and too unwilling to travel around so much without a special event in mind, so…

World Staff, tear down those walls!

The city is sprawling. Most houses aren't even used. I think we could easily hack down the house number to ⅔ of what it is now and not feel the difference. Practically nobody rents teeny slum houses, so may as well remove those 100r regions entirely and use them as free-for-all backdrop, like the pagodas in the park. If people are desperate for slum property, provide proper bases like the old sewer ones.

I fully support having some decorative government buildings that are used just for events, but the sheer number of "event buildings" is insane considering how infrequently they're used.

Honestly? Regalia could and I think should be half the size it is now. It will increase RP opportunities out of the sheer pressure cooker of it all. Eventually, criminals will have to run into victims… or guards. And nobles will have to run into commoners. It'll help silence complaints of cliqueness fueled by private, pre-arranged rps, which are a necessity in this giant city.

Its New Year's Resolution season, help our city shed some of her dead weight.

Reminder that I am not the brightest knife in the shed. Heck, my opinions might be misinformed or flat out wrong!

 

[Lumbo]

So, you're basically saying, "Let's just get rid of everything because I don't like it."?

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

So, you're basically saying, "Let's just get rid of everything because I don't like it."?

Click to shrink...

Not at all. As previously mentioned, I love the city and think it's great. It's just too big. Too much of a good thing. I think if it were smaller, it would be more conducive to RP.

 

[Lumbo]

Not at all. As previously mentioned, I love the city and think it's great. It's just too big. Too much of a good thing. I think if it were smaller, it would be more conducive to RP.

Click to shrink...

But, why? I don't see really the good positives in doing this? Sure, the city is big, but the hotspots like the Golden Willow have enough people for you to communicate with. I just think it'll just frustrate the world staff because all of their hard work is just going to be destroyed? The only thing that I think would be the upside of this is that it will make Regalia more of a social like place, but I feel like the there are more negatives than positives.

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

But, why? I don't see really the good positives in doing this? Sure, the city is big, but the hotspots like the Golden Willow have enough people for you to communicate with. I just think it'll just frustrate the world staff because all of their hard work is just going to be destroyed? The only thing that I think would be the upside of this is that it will make Regalia more of a social like place, but I feel like the there are more negatives than positives.

Click to shrink...

I totally see what you're saying! I can understand the frustration of the world staff when they're things get deleted. What are negatives are you concerned about?

 

[FireFan96]

I think the size of Regalia is perfect, in that it does not need to get larger, or smaller.

I remember a few months back when there was a lack of housing for players. All those 300r regions free to rent? Yup, all of them were claimed. So new regions were made. And now all the old regions are up for rent again. If that influx of players come back again, the regions will be filled up, and the issue is fixed.

I would say maybe the older districts could have some facelifts to them to keep fresh in appearance, and perhaps edit the region prices accordingly. I for one think slum regions should be 30r since they should be easy to live in for poor players.

I'd also argue that people will continue to RP in their own style if they so choose. I play an elitist nobleman, so I generally don't frequent public hotspots like the tavern, since it seem awkward for a ruler to just be drinking with commoners. Just like when I played a commoner, I kept to the harbors since that was where he did his work and felt at home. I think there are enough environments for every kind of character to live out their lives in Regalia.

So I'd say keep the size the same, and work of keeping what we have fresh and interesting. The main road change is an example of such.

 

[Lumbo]

What are negatives are you concerned about?

Click to shrink...

1. As I mentioned about world staff will get frustrated.
2. Fewer houses, (People just want to have a private conversation and not have people crowding their house.)
3. There could be a chance where people won't be able to buy houses in Regalia because there aren't enough houses to use.
4. Fewer opportunities to explore Regalia and also will remove places where some people hangout at (Examples; gangs, groupings, etc.)
5. It'll create a lot more paperwork for staff to do as you'll have to pay the players that owned those houses in regals or have them live somewhere else (Might not happen due to how house there will for players to have; it could be and will most likely create chaos because those players may still want their houses.)

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

Yup, all of them were claimed. So new regions were made. And now all the old regions are up for rent again. If that influx of players come back again, the regions will be filled up, and the issue is fixed.

Click to shrink...

They were claimed for the same reason celebrity makeup products sell out— prestige. They now lay empty, for the most part. And... that's a HUGE "if." I was under the impression that the number of players has been declining, but of course I don't have the figures to back that up.

Additionally, I agree that the theory of "sticking with your own kind" is logical but not applicable. It's all well and good if you want to avoid the filthy commoners, but remember that in doing so you're shutting out fresh RP. You're cliquing with people you already know, OR only attending commoner-free preorganized events. If you're fine with that, then, yes, the city size is just fine. If you prefer to meet new people ICly by chance, then the enormity of Regalia is is stifling.

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

1. As I mentioned about world staff will get frustrated.
2. Fewer houses, (People just want to have a private conversation and not have people crowding their house.)
3. There could be a chance where people won't be able to buy houses in Regalia because there aren't enough houses to use.
4. Fewer opportunities to explore Regalia and also will remove places where some people hangout at (Examples; gangs, groupings, etc.)
5. It'll create a lot more paperwork for staff to do as you'll have to pay the players that owned those houses in regals or have them live somewhere else (Might not happen due to how house there will for players to have; it could be and will most likely create chaos because those players may still want their houses.)

Click to shrink...

I'm not talking about removing player rented regions (save for a few outliers) as most player rented regions tend to cluster together. I'm talking about removing vast swaths of unused, unrented housing, like in the slums.

Opportunities to explore OOCLY aren't opportunities to role play. My argument for shrinking the city is centered around roleplay opportunities. And, in truth, while exploring beautiful builds is nice, it's possible to do in other environments, like the creative world or factions.

Again, HUGE "coulda" or "if" about running out of housing. It just strikes me as very unlikely.

There are so many unused hangouts right now, like nooks in the slums with completely unrented businesses, etc. I honestly think removing the "filler" buildings in regalia will hardly be noticeable.

 

[Chay_]

Agree agree.
When loads of new districts were added, it was because people were complaining there wasn't enough housing, and now, there's the opposite with its own string of problems.
Usually the response is "Regalia's always changing" but is all... change... necessary?
There'd be more benefits of Regalia being smaller than larger.

 

[NightLight12]

I prefer it as it is or not bigger, i love exploring in games and in this type of server its important to explore as well, if its small it will be no fun.. i want to explore more buildings as my character, many places to go, many new places might be build

 

[Reaganism]

I am neutral on the matter.

I never had random-encounter roleplay in any of the "new" districts yet, only in those that are within the "old city walls" and the noble district.

I think removing the districts won't help, though. They merely reduce the amount of houses for sale and increase prices. When I returned I found it hard to find a decent-sized property because a good portion of the houses are rented by inactive players months if not years in advance. Hence why I had to rent in the (new) Ithanian district and even there I had to snipe.

Fixing that, I think, should be a higher priority. Eg, automatically refund all regions after X months of inactivity or only allow players to rent for X months in advance.

 

[ZiHAMMER]

They should just finish it, so it doesn't look unfinished in some parts.

And #makeRegaliaNavigatable

 

[Conflee]

They should just finish it, so it doesn't look unfinished in some parts.

And #makeRegaliaNavigatable

Click to shrink...

Something along this topic came up once and generally speaking: Originally regalia was designed after an actual city layout generator that is historically accurate, but after districts were repeatedly remade, the street layout became messy.

I think some work to make streets more... thurow, would be good in the future maybe, but eh.


As for the main topic of the post: The city grows in size as needed. At the moment it feels too large because we had three new districts added within the last six months, one of which (the slums) increased the city's size by a third of what it was prior and added hundreds and hundreds of rent regions. Because of this, there are more regions available in more parts of the city at all times, which I think is a good thing. Beyond that, more housing districts are not in the works as far as I am aware, nor will they be for a very very long time. I would be surprised if we see one before this coming winter (October/December 2019).

Removing districts is counter productive in a lot of ways because it requires evicting players, and undoing hours and hours of staff work for little to no effect. So it wont ever happen basically.


I think the solution, similarly to the solution I think is needed in the slums atm, is simply more unique locations in the city itself. I remember when the Scholar District was a really nice area with a big thing surrounded by a moat or whatever that burned down, etc. Was awesome. And the little mini-park with the Neyna Tree underground behind the tavern? Awesome.

More quirky little features would probably help RP flow around a little more. Even if its not super often, those areas attract more RP by far than random streets do, no matter how well designed the streets and houses are.

 

[Lumbo]

I'm not talking about removing player rented regions (save for a few outliers) as most player rented regions tend to cluster together. I'm talking about removing vast swaths of unused, unrented housing, like in the slums

Click to shrink...

I thought you said you want to completely just turn Regalia into a smaller box then it was before, but I will agree that we should remove houses that aren't being used, in which I'll be supporting that as they're quite useless. I just don't think we should completely shrink Regalia into a smaller box (Though I still think we should be removing some of the houses that no one uses, due to them being outdated)

 

[Conflee]

I'm not talking about removing player rented regions (save for a few outliers) as most player rented regions tend to cluster together. I'm talking about removing vast swaths of unused, unrented housing, like in the slums.

Click to shrink...

I thought you said you want to completely just turn Regalia into a smaller box then it was before, but I will agree that we should remove houses that aren't being used, in which I'll be supporting that as they're quite useless. I just don't think we should completely shrink Regalia into a smaller box (Though I still think we should be removing some of the houses that no one uses, due to them being outdated)

Click to shrink...

I actually didnt notice this bit, but in that case I simi agree. I went a lot more in detail in other threads and god I feel like im repeating myself a lot, but removing chunks of unused housing for more quirky features and locations is always something I will back 100%. Taking bland, mostly unused areas and giving them at least some uniqueness, even if it doesnt increase player traffic in the area, is just a good way to make the city feel larger and more interesting. For that one player who stumbles upon some oddity for the first time (like me when I found the apartment-esk housing area between the Amphitheatre and the Harbor and squealed lol) its worth it.

 

[Lumbo]

So, you're basically saying, "Let's just get rid of everything because I don't like it."?

Click to shrink...

That sounded a bit rude of me, sorry.

 

[BogeyBanshee]

I just feel that since there's this variability in housing, people are going to claim shops further from the usual acessible tavern for specifc layouts. I know I do, when I was looking for the Tinker Tower's location, I made a list of all unrented homes sorted by size, floors, and wall colors. I consider all things in relative distance from the tavern, not from spawn. "Behind the tavern, two blocks from the tavern, the district that's full of ladder cages that's to the east of the tavern." If it's far, nobody's going to go out and look for it unless I go to the tavern and lead them there, or host an event with a map and specific directions, or add them to my rent teleportation. Your idea is that by limiting space, you can centralize the shops and houses to increase RP without using an event. I think the staff are attempting this, and they haven't been trying to make it easier to get customers without hosting an event, but instead they're doing these evictions to result in the same forced activity. Staff will always see it as our fault for not hosting enough events. Sure, that's a beneficial tactic, and it won't affect me as long as I have my lazily managed shop out of their jurisdiction, but do you know what I think? Delete the tavern. Delete it?! Well if you're trying to centralize the markets, have the roleplay happen there, not the tavern! It's ridiculous to have a character have a sudden desire to go drink and sit alone, sitting needily until the opportunity to talk to someone who may or may not be AFK. The stage isn't even used, so why are they sitting and staring at it? But you know what everyone in the world does? 14th century or 21st century, they go to the market. They sit in the market benches and eat their sandwhiches with tea or cider provided by sweet Mama Yadga (is this a sponsored message? Yes.). I could have had all of my rp interactions set in a market, it'd make no difference. Heck, you can even be stumbling around drunk in the market, people still do that in modern day grocery stores! Instead of deleting the tavern though, why not entirely repurpose it into a market? I'm sick of being an alcoholic just to sit with new people. The very idea of sitting alone in a bar displeases me. From a building perspective, I see at least three ways the taverns layout can be changed into a market. There's already stalls. Removal of the very name of a Tavern could be productive in providing a new outlook, as many people struggle to find rhyme or reason for their character to be in a bar.

 

[Timisc]

I'll begin by saying the overall reasoning behind a resize is a poor one at best. Saying it's "too big" feels more like "I don't care/can't be bothered to explore." considering I'm able to find consistent RP outside of the tavern everywhere except the Slums (an issue which is being looked into). While I agree that the size of a map can impact player interactions based on player base size, Regalia just simply isn't that big.

A little over half a year ago we had a huge housing issue where players each had three houses which left a majority of players without housing. The solution to this problem was simple; new districts, new rental regions. We added well over 150 new regions to the city, but now we sit with empty housing, which is not at all a bad thing. It is no secret that Massive lost a portion of its player base for a time, but has now recovered to the point of having 80+ players on during the week and upwards of 200 on the weekends. I have also observed that players are no longer all too interested in using rents, an issue I plan on looking into this week. All that being said, there is absolutely no problem with there being an excess of rents.

Moving onto the topic of reworking old districts and the city in general. This is already something I am planning to do. A lot of the older districts (the one surrounding main street and black tower, the old Ithanian district, etc.) do need fixing up. They were built over a year, even two years, ago and are out of date. World staff is aware and it simply comes down to people not having the time or interest in working on those projects. To sum up, I am looking into it. With that said, the Main Street project takes precedence over everything currently.

In shorter words, there is work being done and being planned. We are attempting to make the city easier to navigate but to still keep the feel of a large medieval metropolis. So, keep an eye out on projects popping up. There may even be something interesting for sailors coming up.

 

[BogeyBanshee]

I'll begin by saying the overall reasoning behind a resize is a poor one at best. Saying it's "too big" feels more like "I don't care/can't be bothered to explore." considering I'm able to find consistent RP outside of the tavern everywhere except the Slums (an issue which is being looked into). While I agree that the size of a map can impact player interactions based on player base size, Regalia just simply isn't that big.

A little over half a year ago we had a huge housing issue where players each had three houses which left a majority of players without housing. The solution to this problem was simple; new districts, new rental regions. We added well over 150 new regions to the city, but now we sit with empty housing, which is not at all a bad thing. It is no secret that Massive lost a portion of its player base for a time, but has now recovered to the point of having 80+ players on during the week and upwards of 200 on the weekends. I have also observed that players are no longer all too interested in using rents, an issue I plan on looking into this week. All that being said, there is absolutely no problem with there being an excess of rents.

Moving onto the topic of reworking old districts and the city in general. This is already something I am planning to do. A lot of the older districts (the one surrounding main street and black tower, the old Ithanian district, etc.) do need fixing up. They were built over a year, even two years, ago and are out of date. World staff is aware and it simply comes down to people not having the time or interest in working on those projects. To sum up, I am looking into it. With that said, the Main Street project takes precedence over everything currently.

In shorter words, there is work being done and being planned. We are attempting to make the city easier to navigate but to still keep the feel of a large medieval metropolis. So, keep an eye out on projects popping up. There may even be something interesting for sailors coming up.

Click to shrink...

S-sailors? Dock RP? Yes!

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

And the little mini-park with the Neyna Tree underground behind the tavern? Awesome.

Click to shrink...

so true. Rip mini park.

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

I'll begin by saying the overall reasoning behind a resize is a poor one at best. Saying it's "too big" feels more like "I don't care/can't be bothered to explore." considering I'm able to find consistent RP outside of the tavern everywhere except the Slums (an issue which is being looked into). While I agree that the size of a map can impact player interactions based on player base size, Regalia just simply isn't that big.

A little over half a year ago we had a huge housing issue where players each had three houses which left a majority of players without housing. The solution to this problem was simple; new districts, new rental regions. We added well over 150 new regions to the city, but now we sit with empty housing, which is not at all a bad thing. It is no secret that Massive lost a portion of its player base for a time, but has now recovered to the point of having 80+ players on during the week and upwards of 200 on the weekends. I have also observed that players are no longer all too interested in using rents, an issue I plan on looking into this week. All that being said, there is absolutely no problem with there being an excess of rents.

Moving onto the topic of reworking old districts and the city in general. This is already something I am planning to do. A lot of the older districts (the one surrounding main street and black tower, the old Ithanian district, etc.) do need fixing up. They were built over a year, even two years, ago and are out of date. World staff is aware and it simply comes down to people not having the time or interest in working on those projects. To sum up, I am looking into it. With that said, the Main Street project takes precedence over everything currently.

In shorter words, there is work being done and being planned. We are attempting to make the city easier to navigate but to still keep the feel of a large medieval metropolis. So, keep an eye out on projects popping up. There may even be something interesting for sailors coming up.

Click to shrink...

Wow! Thanks for your response! I didn't mean to come off as lazy (and I apologize if I seemed at all ungrateful for the world staff's hard work. It's awesome that you're looking into all this and I apologize if I came off as offensive.

 

[Darwinfluff]

I see your point and would be happy with that change, but I think a better alternative would be to simply make more roleplay hotspots other than the Golden Willow and the Old Town/Slums. They might not have to be taverns, per say, but other venues such as--

• Some sort of more glorified shopping area (like a bazaar or a farmer's market, or more upscale.)
• A scholarly area with a library, a museum, or maybe a school for people with child characters.
  • On that topic, maybe somewhere children can gather? I roleplay a child character and seldom have anything to do with her because a) there's very few child-friendly places, and b) few other people roleplay children (understandable given a)
• or even watered-down strip clubs [if there's a Regalian equivalent].

Those are just random suggestions that may or may not work, but that's off the top of me head. Basically just any other large, marked place where people can gather for roleplay that is more permanent, accessible, and official than the little shops on the sides of Main Street.

 

[EndersGameboy]

This is a pretty simple thread, really.

I love Regalia, it's architecture is beautiful and complex. I've put my praise to the world staff in a spoiler.

Spoiler

Honestly, I love the look and feel of the city. It's literally so gorgeous and ornate and complex. No detail is ever neglected. There are diverse regions and so much fantastic opportunity for adding your own flare with areashop regions. Specifically I love the islehouses, the Ithanian district, the park district, and the garden district. Even the way the slums are built gives them an impoverished feel. Its just A++ work. Perfectly executed concept. Love it.

But its frickin' ginormous. We have too much of an amazingly awesome thing. It's literally impossible to find people unless you arrange a meeting place via event, invite them over OOCLY, or go to a hotspot. Personally, I don't like that.

I remember the re-release of Silverwind, which was exciting, but was a flop. Why? Because Massive's single-city RP is what makes it special and fun. The playerbase is too small and too unwilling to travel around so much without a special event in mind, so…

World Staff, tear down those walls!

The city is sprawling. Most houses aren't even used. I think we could easily hack down the house number to ⅔ of what it is now and not feel the difference. Practically nobody rents teeny slum houses, so may as well remove those 100r regions entirely and use them as free-for-all backdrop, like the pagodas in the park. If people are desperate for slum property, provide proper bases like the old sewer ones.

I fully support having some decorative government buildings that are used just for events, but the sheer number of "event buildings" is insane considering how infrequently they're used.

Honestly? Regalia could and I think should be half the size it is now. It will increase RP opportunities out of the sheer pressure cooker of it all. Eventually, criminals will have to run into victims… or guards. And nobles will have to run into commoners. It'll help silence complaints of cliqueness fueled by private, pre-arranged rps, which are a necessity in this giant city.

Its New Year's Resolution season, help our city shed some of her dead weight.

Reminder that I am not the brightest knife in the shed. Heck, my opinions might be misinformed or flat out wrong!

Click to shrink...

I'm totally down with this idea! But there is also just one other thing I had in mind, that could also help fix the problem of Regalia getting a "small" feel. So, I know this is supposed to be a medieval theme, but whenever I think of medieval cities I think of giant towering walls, a huge central palace/castle on raised terrain in which the castle spreads out into more smaller walls surrounding it, and this lowers onto tightly packed buildings with people moving about on the streets in between. Also the buildings are fairly tall. They aren't anything like New York sized buildings, because that would ruin the medieval theme, but I think it could work in IC circumstances. So what I am trying to say is, don't just make Regalia smaller in width, but increase it in height.

 

[diCardinale]

I'm totally down with this idea! But there is also just one other thing I had in mind, that could also help fix the problem of Regalia getting a "small" feel. So, I know this is supposed to be a medieval theme, but whenever I think of medieval cities I think of giant towering walls, a huge central palace/castle on raised terrain in which the castle spreads out into more smaller walls surrounding it, and this lowers onto tightly packed buildings with people moving about on the streets in between. Also the buildings are fairly tall. They aren't anything like New York sized buildings, because that would ruin the medieval theme, but I think it could work in IC circumstances. So what I am trying to say is, don't just make Regalia smaller in width, but increase it in height.

Click to shrink...

So like say something like Victorian age London or 1800's NYC. That'd be neat.

 

[EndersGameboy]

So like say something like Victorian age London or 1800's NYC. That'd be neat.

Click to shrink...

Yes, that! Just slightly more downscaled for the New York thing, but Victorian Age London, you got it! But with the whole ascending elevation thing as well.

 

[FireFan96]

Going back to OP, I do think Regalia's size does not need to get any larger.

I'd rather see renovations to current districts and maybe more landmark buildings in them. But no need to chop things down.

 

[MokeDuck]

I've heard this idea before. I love it. I still think certain districts should exist, but at least the amount of rent-able houses should be minimized and put in clumps so people can RP easily

 

[Winterless]

Make Regalia a PvP zone once a month yes

But yeah idk, it's kinda good it's so big do that stuff doesn't have to be added

 

[grizenator]

The real problem is how many damn taverns you people need and how often you replace them.

 

[AtticCat]

The real problem is how many damn taverns you people need and how often you replace them.

Click to shrink...

Stop judging Regalia's raging alcoholism :<

 

[Conflee]

The real problem is how many damn taverns you people need and how often you replace them.

Click to shrink...

Theres only two official Taverns, and they only get replaced like once a year ish, which is barely two days of work for a couple Worldies.

 

[EndersGameboy]

I'm going to bump this if it's alright so that some people from the Regalia V5 can look at it.

 

[FireFan96]

wasn't really a point to bump this given V5 is going to be smaller.

 

[CnocBride]

Please do not necro old threads. Regalia V5 is going to be smaller than the current size of Regalia and thus this really requires no further discussion.

Locked.